Beeson Podcast, Episode #574 Reverend Dr. Eric Riesen Nov. 9, 2021 >>Announcer: Welcome to the Beeson podcast, coming to you from Beeson Divinity School on the campus of Samford University. Now your hosts, Doug Sweeney and Kristen Padilla. >>Doug Sweeney: Welcome to the Beeson Podcast. I’m your host, Doug Sweeney, here with my co-host, Kristen Padilla. We are very excited about today’s guest. He preached a wonderful sermon in chapel today. You can find it on our YouTube Channel: www.YouTube.com/BeesonDivinity. He serves as the president of North American Lutheran Seminary. He’s a pastor in the North American Lutheran Church. And in case you’ve not yet hear, Beeson is now an approved seminary of the NALC and of one of its sister denominations, the Lutheran Congregations and Mission For Christ (LCMC). We’ll get into these things in just a few minutes. But before we do, let me ask my podcast partner, Kristen Padilla, to introduce our guest and get our conversation started. >>Kristen Padilla: Thank you, Doug. Hello, everyone. As Doug has already mentioned, we have as a guest the Dr. Reverend Eric Riesen who is president of the North American Lutheran Seminary. Which is housed at the Trinity School for Ministry in Pennsylvania. He’s an ordained minister in the North American Lutheran Church, which we want to talk to him about today. So, welcome, Dr. Riesen, to the Beeson Podcast. >>Dr. Riesen: Thank you, Kristen. It’s great to be here. Thank you, Dr. Sweeney, for your hospitality. It’s been just delightful. I’ve loved this seminary and your chapel when I visited here a number of years ago. It was an honor to be able to proclaim the gospel today from your chapel. So, thank you. >>Doug Sweeney: We hope you come back many times. >>Dr. Riesen: From your lips to God’s ears. >>Kristen Padilla: (laughs) Amen. Well, we always like to begin these podcasts by allowing our guests to share some more personal words about yourself. So, could you introduce yourself to our listeners? Where you’re from- >>Dr. Riesen: Kristen, I’d be delighted to. I’m married to Terry Lynn and we have three grown children. They’re kind of scattered. One in Ohio, one in New Jersey. Our youngest right here in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. We were able to see him. He and his wife are at the university there. We are the proud grandparents of one little granddaughter, our first, River Lynn. As Dr. Sweeney said, I’m the president of the North American Lutheran Seminary. And we could talk more about this later. Theological education, pastoral formation, and what we are trying to do to secure pastors for the church. >>Doug Sweeney: We’re looking forward to diving right into those really important topics. Before we do, lots of lay people listen to the Beeson Podcast. Some pastors, some alums of Beeson Divinity School, a lot of people who would be interested in hearing the story of your call to pastoral ministry and your own formation as a pastor. >>Dr. Riesen: Thank you. I’ll be honest with you. In my high school class ... I am not exaggerating ... I think I would have been voted the last person to enter the Christian ministry. That was not anything on my radar screen. I was not raised in a church family. I did attend Sunday school as a child with a neighbor, which she eventually led to my baptism when I was about 11 years old. We were just not a church family. We weren’t even Christmas and Easter Christians. We were nothing. So, when I came to faith as a young adult, largely, through outside the traditional church doors and the old Jesus Movement and preaching and the music of that time. I began to read the Bible. I’d never read the Bible before. I remember going to Jesus Christ Superstar with a girlfriend. And she was kind of explaining the text to me, “Now, who is this?” Because we were just not ... “Who is Pontius Pilate,” and people like that? It just wasn’t part of my upbringing. Something hooked me in those years. A fascination with questions of truth and God, which I think they haunt all of us. And that led eventually to a lot of circumstances and when I was in college I wasn’t really sure what I wanted to do. So, I had done a lot of different things. But I was student teaching and decided seminary. Because I didn’t know where I fit in this church. From an outsider looking in ... what’s the difference between a Methodist and a Presbyterian and a Lutheran, et cetera? And all of them from the Roman Church. So, I decided to go to Fuller. Because it was multidenominational. And so I went to ... I was a young man with a mission to figure some things out. And long story short, eventually got connected with a Lutheran congregation in Southern California and did an independent reading. The pastor encouraged me, after I finished a masters to apply to the Lutheran seminary where I finished my MDiv. And was ordained and have been serving in the Lutheran Church the past 30+ years. So, there’s a lot of detail, but that’s the overview. >>Kristen Padilla: Well, we’ve already mentioned the North American Lutheran Church a couple of times in this podcast. Also known as the NALC. But we have listeners who did not grow up Lutheran and would I think benefit from hearing some of its history. Can you tell us more about your denomination? It’s distinctive’s? It’s history? >>Dr. Riesen: Sure. The Lutheran theological movement, of course the catalyst was Luther and Lutheran Reformation. And I love it that in the Beeson video introducing the dome ... I really appreciate that when they talk about Martin Luther as one of the figures in the dome there that he did not intend to start a new denomination. And one of the things that attracted me to Lutheranism was simply that. It was not trying to start something new. It was actually trying to clarify and cleanse the historic church. There were abuses that everybody knows of. And Luther’s attempt, rightly or wrongly, successfully or unsuccessfully, he tried to bring the Church back to its roots that had been somewhat obscured – I won’t say “lost” but obscured. From that, unfortunately, there was a schism and it didn’t stop there. The splintering of the Church in the West until the multi-denominationalism that it is today. So, the Lutheran theological movement today is very diverse. Unfortunately, there have been schisms within the Lutheran tradition as their have in every other Protestant communion. The North American Lutheran Church is an attempt, and what I call the vital confessional center of Lutheranism in North America. We’re trying to have diversity but remain faithful to the original kind of theological genius that Lutheran reformers were trying to convey. Be faithful confessionally and biblically and also to be culturally engaged but not culturally determined. We don’t want the culture to be the driving force. We want to be engaged with the culture in every way but we also ... when the gospel, when God’s Word – there’s some clarity there – we need to be faithful. That’s what we’re trying to do to be faithful to how we hear God speaking today. That’s why we need friends like Beeson. And that’s why we’re so happy to be here. Because you’re trying to do the same thing. And from whatever tradition you find it. So, I hope that answered 500 years in like a minute and a half. >>Doug Sweeney: That’s great. We’re on the same page. So, Eric, tell our listeners a little bit about North American Lutheran Seminary and how you became the head and what you’re trying to do these days. >>Dr. Riesen: All right. Well, I am a parish pastor. I have served in a parish for 30 years. I’ve also been very active in the commission for doctrine of theology of the North American Lutheran Church. I’ve been, as all pastors are ... there is a scholarly vocation in the pastorate. At least there should be. We continue to sharpen the saw, continue to grow. Many of us were called into ministry because of this passion for theological education and the truth of the gospel. We wanted to bring that out pastorally, but also we have an intellectual engagement with that as well. So, I was safely ensconced in a parish in Ohio, enjoying my ministry, when I got a call from a former Bishop who told me that there were two times in his entire ministry that he knew the Holy Spirit was telling people to do things. And one was a certain pastor to a certain call. The second is you. The Holy Spirit wants you to take over the role of president of the seminary. And my wife and I ... we just thought and prayed about it. I had other affirmations as we prayed that this was something we were supposed to do. So, I left parish ministry and became the president of the North American Lutheran Seminary, which is kind of unique. We’re not a bricks and mortar seminary. We’re a seminary in which we enlist the aid of a variety of other seminaries. Beeson is one in our network. And these are the seminaries that we say, “We want our pastors to go to one of these, because we can be assured that they will be orthodox and biblically faithful. They have what we want. They work with us.” So, we’re happy to be at Beeson and recommend it as one of the seminaries in the network. I am doing a lot of speaking and I do some teaching at the seminary. I teach homiletics. And yeah, it’s a great challenge, but who knows what God will do? >>Kristen Padilla: That’s a nice segue into talking about more this partnership that you just mentioned and that Doug mentioned at the top of the show. Can you tell us more about the partnership? How did this all come about? What does this look like? And why is Beeson a good place for Lutherans to train for ministry? >>Dr. Riesen: Well, good questions. I’m going to focus on Beeson. Because this is a podcast. I knew of Beeson a number of years ago, reading a journal, and Dr. Timothy George would write for that journal. And I was very impressed. I’ve said that he was the most Catholic Baptist I’d ever heard. He just had a really strong sense of the Church and ecclesiology. Yet he was faithful to his Baptist heritage as well. Then a friend of mine began to teach here, Gerry McDermott. I was down here for a Lutheran/Anglican Theological Consultation, and I liked it. It just felt right. I had the buzz, if you will. It was very positive of what you’re trying to do here. Then I met Dr. Sweeney and very open to this idea. He is a Lutheran also. And so we just began to explore possibilities. Would it be possible for this to be a recommended seminary? Can we grow into a relationship where we can be assured that our students would be formed faithfully in this wonderfully ecumenical environment? And I know with the Lutheran faculty you have here that can happen. And I think it is better to be in an ecumenical situation because it isn’t group think. You’ve got to know why you’re a Lutheran and not a Presbyterian, or whatever. So, I’m just real excited. We love it down here. It’s neat to have a place in the South, geographically. And if I had a magic wand, we would have many, many more Lutheran students. By the grace of God someday we hope to. >>Doug Sweeney: Well, we love you, too, Eric. We love the NALC. And we love catechisms. We love teaching people about the Bible and the Christian faith and I want our listeners to know just a few years back you published something called, “The Christian Faith: A Catechism for the Curious.” And you talk about providing an orthodox guide for those who are curious Christians from an evangelical Catholic strand of thought. A lot of Beeson people know that language, but maybe not all of our listeners do. Can you tell them about the book? Tell them about your catechism. What do you mean by “evangelical Catholic?” What do you mean by “catechism for the curious?” >>Dr. Riesen: Absolutely. This is fun. All right. I began this book because when I was teaching new members, instruction to bring people into the Church when I was in Pittsburg, to be honest, the material that I found, like the introduction to Lutheran Christianity, it wasn’t engaging. And it was answering questions no one was asking. All right? The development of the Lutheran liturgy, or some historical fine points, and things like that – as important as they may be, I don’t want to underestimate that – but I found that what ... even Christians ... the questions they were asking, sometimes they were a little bit even afraid to ask about their doubts. About things like science and how does it contradict, or the popular culture the way its depicted of the Bible being written years after the events that it purports to narrate, and things like that. As well as just an understanding of the essentials of the faith, the doctrine of the Trinity, for example. Or the inspiration of scripture. And so I began to write a series of lessons for new members. And this evolved into what became the “Catechism for the Curious,” which by the way will be updated and revised and out again in a new edition by the end of the year. I hope. The manuscript is at the editor and they’re formatting it now. So, that was the gist. I wanted to create conversations where we could talk about even the challenges to faith. The existence of God, we begin with that, and why do we believe in God in a world filled with such suffering? So, those were the questions people, I sensed, were asking. You mentioned evangelical Catholic, and I’m of that strain of Lutheranism that considers the Lutheran Reformation to be a reform of the Catholic faith, a change, not departing from the Catholic faith but an attempt to really clarify what the Church teaches and to present that truth in sequence with the great tradition of the Church Fathers and all the people ... Some of the people that you have on the dome of Beeson. We’re part of the same family. And we need to learn from each other. It’s not just what Luther thought, but it’s also what Augustine thought and St. Francis. Today, one of my favorite theologians is Benedict XVI – the Pope Emeritus. We can learn from each other because we’re confessing, or try to confess together, the same essence of faith. So, to be an evangelical is to be gospel centered, scripturally based, emphasis there on the importance of a personal faith, a living faith, but it’s also to be deeply rooted in the Catholic faith in the creeds of the Church, in the traditions of the Church. Even the hymnity and liturgy of the Church. We are part of the great Church in all of its fullness. And yet we’re grounded as well in scripture and the centrality of the gospel of Jesus Christ and justification by grace through faith. So, we’re trying to be faithful as much as we can in a world that is, in a culture that’s changing rapidly. >>Kristen Padilla: We’ve talked about your own parish ministry and now your ministry and theological education. And I wonder if you can just speak for a moment about how on the one hand your experience as a pastor has helped you in the shaping and forming of ministers of the gospel. And secondly, what is your prayer for this next generation of ministers? What do you think they need to hear? What does the Church need as they’re preparing for ministry? I wonder if you could speak to that as well. >>Dr. Riesen: Well, thank you for that question. First of all, I think being a parish pastor was excellent preparation for this position, this call. Because by and large most of our students will end up in a parish. Even those who go on for further graduate work, a PhD or something. Many, not many, but we have quite a number of good and faithful pastors who have PhD’s in various theological disciplines. But I think to prepare people for ministry and the challenges of ministry today, with fewer and fewer people engaged in the life of the Church, with the numbers shrinking in so many different ways, and the culture simply not being as friendly as it was. Now, these are great challenges. But I think they’re also great opportunities. Because if the gospel is true, we have nothing to fear from its opponents. That’s why we have to have pastors that are well formed, learned, intellectually formed, spiritually formed, deep in the great tradition of Christian faith, deep in the evangelical witness. And as an NALC pastor, formed to be part of the values of the North American Lutheran Church. All these challenges face us, but it’s just a great mission opportunity. I would say today the culture is increasingly less like the 19th and early 20th century, more like the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th centuries. Where Christianity was in a minority and all these intellectual and religious challenges to the faith. And yet the gospel emerged because the Holy Spirit blessed the ministry of the Church and in some places the Church began to thrive. So, I’m optimistic, not because of me or anybody else, but because the Holy Spirit will not let us fall through the cracks. But that doesn’t mean ... We’ve got to do both. We’ve got to work hard and pray hard. And my prayer for the pastors, I pray that we have pastors who love Jesus, who love God, who love people, and who are intellectually passionate and spiritually passionate. People who can live from both their head and their hearts. And putting those together to begin to share God’s truth with the world and that will take humility and courage and fortitude and grace and sprinkle it all with a lot of joy. (laughs) >>Doug Sweeney: Amen. Well, Pastor Riesen, Kristen and I always conclude these interviews with podcast guests by asking them what God’s been teaching them recently? Anything that you can say, just from your own walk with God, in recent weeks to our listeners that might be an encouragement to them? >>Dr. Riesen: Yes, I can. What has God been teaching me? I know this sounds ... I’ll say it and then I’ll explain it. God has been teaching me that the gospel is true. All right? That I proclaim the gospel, I believe the gospel, but again and again in the messiness of life and in the challenges of what we’re trying to do, it’s easy to forget the gospel. And God has shown me again and again in small ways that he will not let us go. As I preached today on Samuel and the idea of when all of our supports are gone, when everything is taken way, all of the idols, all the things in which we trust even without being aware of it – when those are taken away and we say, “I’ve only got God.” And that’s enough. As a friend of mine, a theologian, used to say ... He related it to another story ... Just the simple truth that, “Jesus loves you and he will never let you go.” >>Doug Sweeney: Amen. Listeners, you have been hearing the Reverend Dr. Eric Riesen. He is an ordained Lutheran pastor. Has been a congregational minister for many, many years. He is the president of the North American Lutheran Seminary which is based in Pennsylvania, but has a network of sister schools spread around the country, including Beeson Divinity School. So, he is also a partner with us in the ministry of forming good pastors. We are grateful to you, Dr. Riesen, for being on the show with us today. More importantly, we’re grateful to you for being our partners in ministry and preaching in chapel, edifying us in so many ways. Listeners, please pray for Dr. Riesen and the North American Lutheran Seminary. And pray for Beeson Divinity School, as it partners with people like Dr. Riesen in training Lutheran pastors for the next generation and all kinds of other faithful, godly ministers of the Word. We say goodbye for now. >>Kristen Padilla: You’ve been listening to the Beeson podcast. Our theme music is written and performed by Advent Birmingham of the Cathedral Church of the Advent in Birmingham, Alabama. Our engineer is Rob Willis. Our announcer is Mike Pasquarello. Our co-hosts are Doug Sweeney and, myself, Kristen Padilla. Please subscribe to the Beeson podcast at www.BeesonDivinity.com/podcast or on iTunes.