Beeson Podcast, Episode #613 Dr. Tyshawn Gardner Aug. 2, 2022 >>Announcer: Welcome to the Beeson podcast, coming to you from Beeson Divinity School on the campus of Samford University. Now your hosts, Doug Sweeney and Kristen Padilla. >>Doug Sweeney: Welcome to a new season of the Beeson Podcast. I am your host, Doug Sweeney, and I am here with my co-host, Kristen Padilla. We are glad that you’ve tuned in today. Over the summer, we released our 2022 issue of Beeson Magazine. Its theme this year is, “Singing the Faith.” It’s focused on the role hymns and songs have played in the Christian tradition. You can read a digital version of the magazine on our website at www.BeesonDivinity.com/beesonmagazine. As we begin our new podcast season we’ll feature a series on the theme of the magazine. During the next several weeks we’ll invite some of the friends who have contributed to the magazine to come on the show, discuss their contributions, and tell us about what the Lord is doing in their lives these days. Before Kristen introduces our guest for today, let me tell you that we’ve launched a new Beeson E-Newsletter – just this month! It’s full of information on happenings at Beeson. And if you would like to subscribe, please go to www.BeesonDivinity.com/media. All right, Kristen. Who do we have on the show with us today? >>Kristen Padilla: Doug, we have the Reverend Tyshawn Gardner. He is Associate Professor in Samford University’s Department of Biblical and Religious Studies, and serves now as the Director of the Department’s Pre Ministerial Scholars program. He is a Beeson graduate, which we are very proud to say. And he also received his PhD from the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. Until recently, he has served as the Senior Pastor of Plum Grove Baptist Church in Tuscaloosa and has a lot of pastoral ministry. He’s also been working on a couple of books. One which we’re going to talk about today on the show. So, welcome, Dr. Gardner, to the Beeson Podcast. >>Dr. Gardner: Kristen, thank you. Thank you so much. Dean Sweeney, thank you. I’m glad to be here today. >>Kristen Padilla: Well, we’re glad to have you as our first guest of the new season. We always like to begin by allowing our podcast guest to introduce themselves to our listeners in a more personal way. So, I wonder if you could begin by giving us a little insight into your background? Where you are from and how you came to faith in Jesus Christ? >>Dr. Gardner: Yes. Thank you. A very important question. One that I take pleasure, just for the sake of Christian witness, to articulate. And I’m originally from a very small community in Pickens County, Alabama. No traffic lights. No Wal-Mart’s, Dollar General’s, just woods and trees. Born and raised in Pickens County. My mother brought us to faith. She introduced us to Jesus Christ at a very early age. We were very active in church. All day. Every Sunday. But growing up there in Pickens County with a community of believers – uncles, aunts, neighbors, who were believers, who were strong believers, both in profession and practice, really had a shaping on my developmental stages. I joined the US Navy right out of high school in 1989. Came back to Pickens County shortly after in 1995. I accepted the call the preach. And served in a church there in Gordo, Alabama before moving to Tuscaloosa to Mt. Pilgrim Baptist Church where I served Frank Kennedy Senior for about five years, and moving on to Plum Grove to serve as the Assistant Pastor two years before becoming the Senior Pastor in 2003. >>Doug Sweeney: Wonderful. We’ll be thanking the Lord forever for godly mothers. I tell you what. >>Dr. Gardner: I know it. >>Doug Sweeney: Dr. Gardner, how about just a little bit more about your ministry life, your vocational journey? Tell us about the history of Plum Grove a little bit. About the transition going on? And about what you’re looking forward to when it comes to joining the faculty full time here at Samford? >>Dr. Gardner: Well, first, only God could have done this. I remember, Dean Sweeney, attending Samford as an undergrad in 1997. I was a student of Dr. Jim Barnett whose position I am filling now. Unfortunately and heartbreakingly, we lost Dr. Barnett. And so I can remember days coming on this campus, thankful but struggling financially, young, trying to raise a family – also trying to work full time. And I actually had to take a break from my studies here to work full time and raise my family. Ended up finishing my bachelors work at Stillman College in 2007. Enrolled at Beeson Divinity School in 2011. Graduated in 2014. And went on to Southern in 2015. But It’s meant the world to me to be back sort of full circle as an undergrad student, a graduate student, and now joining the faculty. So, in between that time, the faculty of Beeson Divinity School, namely Paul House, Dr. Robert Smith has been very kind to me in extending teaching opportunities, whether to lecture in their classes or in the case of Dr. Smith, we’ve co-taught a couple of classes. So, that’s been pleasurable. I’ve learned ... I’ve had to remember and to remind myself that in those classes with him that I’m also a teacher, not a student. (laughter) So, every time he opens his mouth it’s a world of wisdom. I don’t have to tell you what that’s like. My ministry has ... I’ve served the Lord’s Church in a variety of capacities. Youth Pastor, Associate Minister, Leader of home bible study and small groups, and as an Associate Assistant Pastor with Walter Lane Robinson whose son, Timothy Robinson, is also a graduate of Beeson, married to Cokiesha Bailey Robinson. So, Beeson has a way of just making family, connecting family, and supporting in that manner. But my pastorate has been ... I’ve been at Plumb Grove going on 20 years. It would have been 20 years in January. We like to look at ourselves as a progressive church that’s very engaged in the community. We like to view ourselves as a church that reflects Christ to the community. We like to have our finger on the pulse of the city as we have for almost 20 years. And we’ve taken the gospel to every crevice and corner in Tuscaloosa and beyond. So, it’s indeed been a pleasure loving, serving, shepherding the people at Plum Grove and in west Tuscaloosa and the broader Tuscaloosa. I was just on another podcast on yesterday with the city council president, Kip Tyner, talking about my work there and just getting some very good encouragement from those folks as I make this transition. But being here with the stellar world-class faculty of Samford University and BREL is going to be a learning curve in that all of my academic career it’s sort of been as an adjunct, a visiting scholar ... so, to be on the campus, serving on committees, being in the classroom, is an opportunity that I really look forward to. >>Doug Sweeney: You know, Kristen, it might help our listeners to hear just a 60 second version of what we do in the pre ministerial scholars program. Because that helps Beeson. Some of those folks have come our way. But more importantly it helps the churches in our area. >>Dr. Gardner: Yeah. So, the pre ministerial scholars program is one of Samford’s core scholars program among I think five others. I’ll be directing that program. And in that program we shepherd, develop students who sense that they have a call to ministry. We shepherd them through [inaudible 00:09:12]. They also participate in Samford Sunday. When I was a student we called it H day. But it’s a way for us to mold and shape people, students who are going to be working in the church. There’s a $3,000 scholarship for those who are accepted. They also have the opportunity to go on two retreats per year. And they can use that money to supplement their work in a local church or to go on conferences, conventions, and things of that nature. But I think the biggest opportunity for them and for me is the sense of community that will develop. And having a mentor. Everyone that’s called into ministry doesn’t have a pastor who is accessible and hands-on. So, this ministry really molded and shaped by Jim Barnett has been responsible for producing, developing, and sending some of the most effective pastors and church workers that we’ve seen in a long time. >>Kristen Padilla: And I’ve enjoyed working with this program this past year through my work with the Center for Women in Ministry. I know we’ve partnered together to help provide some of those mentoring opportunities to students. So, I’m excited to work with you as we look ahead to this next year. As Doug mentioned at the beginning of the show, we want to talk to you about the interview that you gave for the Beeson Magazine. The Beeson Magazine was focused, as Doug said, on the role of hymns and the Christian tradition. We titled the magazine, “Singing the Faith.” And I had a wonderful conversation with you. We talked over Zoom first and then you sent in some written answers to the questions that I gave you. And we would like to ask you a couple of these questions for our podcast listeners to hear your response. But one of the questions that I asked you was, what role do hymns play in the African American tradition generally and in preaching specifically? So, can you tell our listeners how you responded to that question for the magazine? And of course expand on it if you would like? >>Dr. Gardner: So, one of the things I think I failed to address in the article in that there is a sense that hymns, the place of hymns in the African American church is the same as in any other church. A central component of worship, of discipleship through teaching the gospel through song. However, in the African American church, hymns play a central role in that often they communicate not only the faith but they also communicate a narrative of suffering, of pain, and of triumph, which needs to be interpreted sometimes. So, there are hymns like, “Swing Low Sweet Chariot,” that on the surface it sounds like bible, but beneath there is an underlying message of one’s desire to escape to freedom, to experience life as God would have every image bearer to experience it. So, in the African American church hymns have really set the tone for preaching. Preachers have placed hymns in their sermons, even sang hymns, or led hymns before, during, or after. So, in a sense, I like to think of hymns as not only as a component in the worship service that instructs us in the faith, but it also communicates the reality of a loving God who cares deeply for us and who will sustain us in the midst of our communal suffering. >>Doug Sweeney: I know that one of the other questions Kristen asked you in that interview had to do with the role of hymns and spiritual songs in the Civil Rights movement here in the US. Tell our listeners just a little bit about that. I bet some of them know and lots of them have seen footage about the Civil Rights movement, know how important pastors in churches were in it, but what about singing? What was the role of singing in the Civil Rights movement? >>Dr. Gardner: Singing in the Civil Rights movement gave or further cemented this sense of collective suffering and gave the glue that was responsible for enduring, as you know, we all know, what would be in the words of Dr. King a “very long night.” But songs like, “We Shall Overcome” reminded those who were marching, those who were constantly threatened to have their jobs stripped away from them if they were found out to be resisting or participating in non violent Civil Rights demonstrations. These hymns mainly sang during marching and during mass rallies. So, every city had their night. In Tuscaloosa, Monday night. It was a Monday night rally where the believers ... and some, not all, not all Black, a lot of White, but the tone and tenor or the style of the hymn was birthed from the African American experience. But in that way, in the Civil Rights movement, hymns reminded the marcher, reminded the worshipper that one day we shall overcome. We will see victory. And God be praised. >>Kristen Padilla: Well, we encourage you who are listening to pick up a copy of the Beeson Magazine or find it on our website and read the full interview with Dr. Gardner. So, thank you for that. One thing that we wanted to talk to you about while we had you on the show is a book that is coming out this fall called, “Sacred Anthropology: Prophetic Radicalism For Pulpit and Pew.” It’s my understanding that in this book you talk about social crisis preaching. And so I wonder if you can tell our listeners a bit about this book? And what you mean specifically by “sacred anthropology?” >>Dr. Gardner: Right. Great question. Sacred anthropology is a term that I believe the Lord gave me actually when I was writing my dissertation at Southern. So, this book is just an expanded work on that concept which combines theological anthropology and cultural anthropology as a lens by which we can view humanity in order to solve the world’s most pressing problems. So, I believe that there is a lot of value in culture anthropology. It teaches us about culture. It teaches us about our myths, our beliefs, our likings, so much about cultural anthropology that we really need in this time to understand one another. And I think when you look at things like sexism, racism, a lot of the divide that’s going on in our world and country, at the root of that, of course, we know is sinfulness. But there’s this practical aspect which is that we don’t understand one another. I still want to give humanity the benefit of the doubt. To say that if he only knew that light bulb would go off and he would say, “Oh, I didn’t know.” So, in that aspect that’s where sacred anthropology incorporates the scientific discipline of cultural anthropology. But on the theological anthropology spectrum it simply centers how we should view every human being as image bearers, people who are created in the image of God, who can participate in the redemptive story of God. And to be used widely. And so the book explains that. But then it goes further into explaining how not only pastors, but the pew can be engaged in solving these problems and help bring some peace into our often divided world. >>Doug Sweeney: Dr. Gardner, I want the Beeson fans out there to know that not only are you an alumnus of this fine institution but you’re a regular presence on our campus. You’ve preached for us, you’ve been on our podcast, you hang out with our students on a regular basis, and as we’ve hinted already, you teach here, too. I’d love for the listeners to hear a little bit about this new class that you and Dr. Smith started a little while ago that we’re going to be offering on a regular basis on African American Church Life. Which has not only been popular among Black students at Beeson, but among White students and other students as well. So, what are you guys doing in that class? And what should our people know about it? >>Dr. Gardner: You should know that that class is going to be your favorite class. (laughter) But the class is more of a historical theological class. I may say maybe a little bit heavier on the theological than the historical, but in that class we also discuss things like hymns and Black preaching, but it also helps the students to understand the role of the Black Church in two facets. Church history and US history. How the Black Church has been a tool, an instrument, in the hand of God to bring about some of the things that I talk about in the book. And that is a sense of the righteousness and justice of God. The consciousness of God. So, we talk about how the Lord has moved in those believers throughout history in this course. But we also discuss and bring to bear how the Black Church is welcoming. Some people don’t like that term, “Black Church.” And I get this a lot. “There’s no Black Church, there’s one church.” But historically we will understand how that came to be. A sense of rejection and ostracism. However, the Black Church is a church that has always welcomed every person, regardless of race and ethnicity. And so Dr. Smith and I also discuss multiculturalism in the class as well. So, we discuss everything from Black preaching, historical aspects of the Black Church, Black worship, and our trajectory to become a more inclusive racially and ethnically inclusive body. >>Kristen Padilla: Well, I have heard students who have taken that course brag. Exactly saying what you have said, that it is an excellent course and so I just want to second that, what you said. >>Dr. Gardner: We love it. We love it. >>Kristen Padilla: Well, every time we have a Beeson graduate on the show, we like to ask them about their time at Beeson and how Beeson prepared them for the work that you’re doing today. And I know you’ve mentioned already Dr. Smith and Dr. House, but what would you say about the role Beeson has played in your life and ministry? >>Dr. Gardner: Beeson Divinity School has probably been one of, if not ... besides the Church, the most impactful experience I’ve had not only in my academic life, but in life. Just a few examples. Just yesterday I was texting back and forth with classmates Jennifer Lusher, [inaudible 00:21:41]. Just Sunday in my sermon I mentioned, I gave an illustration I’ll never forget orientation, Dr. Thielman made the comment, “Never sacrifice worship for a grade.” In other words, never skip worship, skip Sunday service, responsibilities to worship, to get a paper in, to study. That went a long way with me. And I think in a practical aspect sometimes we sacrifice as a pastor overseeing a congregation our members have a tendency to think that there are valid reasons to miss service. And so I brought that ... lessons that I learned outside the classroom and inside the classroom are still shaping who I am. But not just as a scholar, but as a father, as a husband, because here at Beeson Divinity School, Lyle Dorsett, you see men and women who are faithful fathers. Dr. Padilla; who are good men. Who are not only some of the top rated scholars in the world, but they really love the Lord’s Church. They love people. And so for me it’s been much deeper than an academic and a scholastic experience. It’s been soul shaping. It’s been life impacting. And it’s left indeed and indelible impression upon my life. Which I hope that my family, my wife, my children, as well as my congregation are bearing the fruits of it. >>Doug Sweeney: Dr. Gardner, you know Kristen and I always like to conclude these interviews by asking our guests for some words of encouragement for listeners from their own recent walk with the Lord. Their own recent spiritual experiences. Is something going on in your own life in recent weeks that’s new? Has the Lord been teaching you anything that we might conclude with that would be edifying for our listeners? >>Dr. Gardner: Yes. The Lord has been teaching me for the past month about trust. Trusting him even when we don’t see our way. We are making the transition to Samford from Stillman and Plum Grove, but we still have a lot of unanswered questions like, “Where will we worship?” “Will we move to Birmingham?” “What will it really be like?” But God has given us a peace that we don’t need to know the answers to the questions of the future. What we need to know is what God is saying now and we need to respond in obedience and there’s nothing that brings about the peace of God like being obedient to God. So, if I could say anything to our listeners: obey the voice of God. Therein you will find much peace. >>Doug Sweeney: Amen. Thank you, Dr. Gardner. And thank you, listeners, for tuning in again this week. You have been listening to Dr. Tyshawn Gardner. He has been for two decades the Senior Pastor of the Plum Grove Baptist Church in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. He’s an alumnus of Beeson Divinity School. There’s lots of other important things to tell you about him. But the thing I’ll conclude with is the reminder that we are pleased to say he is joining the Samford faculty full time starting right now, and moving in just across the way. So, we’re glad to have him close. We’re glad that he’s going to be a wonderful influence on the lives of lots of our students in the years to come. Thank you for being with us. We love you. And we say goodbye for now. >>Kristen Padilla: You’ve been listening to the Beeson podcast. Our theme music is written and performed by Advent Birmingham of the Cathedral Church of the Advent in Birmingham, Alabama. Our engineer is Rob Willis. Our announcer is Mike Pasquarello. Our co-hosts are Doug Sweeney and, myself, Kristen Padilla. Please subscribe to the Beeson podcast at www.BeesonDivinity.com/podcast or on iTunes.