Beeson Podcast, Episode #684 Dr. Robert Smith Jr. Date >>Announcer: Welcome to the Beeson podcast, coming to you from Beeson Divinity School on the campus of Samford University. Now your host, Doug Sweeney. >>Doug Sweeney: Welcome to the Beeson Podcast. I am your host, Doug Sweeney. I’m joined today by Dr. Robert Smith, Jr, our beloved Charles T. Carter Baptist Chair of Divinity. Dr. Smith is a well known preacher, professor, and author – and is cherished here at Beeson for his decades of work helping to prepare our students for ministry. He recently announced his forthcoming retirement at the end of this academic year. Of course, we’ll miss him greatly but he’s promising to come back a lot as well. Welcome, Dr. Smith, to the program. >>Dr. Smith: Thank you, my Dean. >>Doug Sweeney: Well, I want our listeners to get to know a lot about you and your ministry story today. We’ll spend the most of our time talking about your years at Beeson of course and what’s going on these days. Can we start at the beginning? What was your childhood like? How did you come to know the Lord? And at what age did you sense that the Lord was calling you into ministry? >>Dr. Smith: Well, our parents (we were four children) moved us from Knoxville, TN where we were born to Cincinnati, Ohio when I was four years of age. Of course we were immediately a part of a church there in Cincinnati – Rose Chapel Baptist Church. That’s my childhood church. Attended Sunday school, regularly sung in the Rosebuds singing group, the junior choir, and all of that. At age seven my pastor, Eli Alexander, preached the gospel and he preached it faithfully, and he preached hard. I believed the gospel. I was saved as a result of that. Whosoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. He was my mentor. He made me junior deacon. He challenged me. He stretched me. I got to the point at age 14 where God called me to teach and I don’t understand it to this day, but I was teaching the deacons class at 14. And doing home bible study courses with people that I had personally evangelized and gathered from the community to come to our house and I taught upwards of 40 and 50 people every week. I didn’t know what I was doing. It was just the way the Lord was leading me. >>Doug Sweeney: How did other people know to tap you to do the work? At age 14 what did people see in you that they thought the Lord wanted to use in your church? >>Dr. Smith: I was an individual that spent time with only older people – mothers and the fathers of the church. I didn’t hang around young people my age. So, I didn’t play a lot of games or anything. I was in prayer meetings. Sometimes the only ones. I visited the convalescence centers. Because I was interested in older people, listening to their stories, et cetera – so I was unusual. The people in our tradition would say, “Well, he’s got the mark on him.” Well, there was nothing visible there but what they were saying is the hand of the Lord is upon him. And my mother protected me because they were saying, “He’s going to preach.” And mama said, “Don’t tell him he’s going to preach. Because if he’s going to preach, the Lord will inform him of that.” She did not want me to base my calling upon what people were saying. So, at age 17 God did call me to preach. And he called me at a church that our church was visiting. Our church was Rose Chapel Baptist Church. I was visiting with our church the New Mission Baptist Church. Ten years later at 27 years of age I was called to the New Mission Baptist Church where I had been called as a preacher, now I’m called as a Pastor. So, at 27 I began my pastoral journey. >>Doug Sweeney: The experience when you felt like the Lord was calling you to preaching ministry, what was the experience like? >>Dr. Smith: I was singing in the choir. I sensed ... I didn’t hear a voice, but I sensed that the Lord was saying to me what he asked of Isaiah, “Whom shall I send and who will go forth?” My response was, “Here am I. Send me.” Because I said to the Lord, “Whatever you want me to do.” Whether it was to be a missionary, or a pastor, or whatever it is – I am willing to do it. That was what he wanted me to do. He wanted me to preach and of course the older I get the more I understand it. Then I didn’t understand it. But I knew it was a reality. >>Doug Sweeney: All right. How did you prepare educationally to be a pastor? >>Dr. Smith: Well, when I was 17, again, I chose not to go to bible college the first year. Because a man by the name of Perry ... he was 92 years of age ... he was one of our associate ministers at the time at Rose Chapel Baptist Church who believed that seminaries caused you to lose your faith. He called them “cemeteries.” So, he says, “All you need is a set of Matthew Henry commentaries and a King James Bible. That’s all you need.” I believed him. He was revered in our church. But I discovered during that year that he was wrong. So, I started my bible college education at age 18. I would not go back to school until I was 32 years of age, because I’d gotten married and we had our children. My wife died after 15 years. That’s the time that I went back to school and begin my theological preparation at Southern Baptist Seminary. I did two degrees there. Eventually started teaching at that institution. >>Doug Sweeney: Did you take a break from pastoring to do that? Or were you pastoring and preaching all the way through school? >>Dr. Smith: Pastored and preached all the way through school. >>Doug Sweeney: Wow. All right. Then you stayed in the Cincinnati area at least after you were done in Louisville and pastored some more? >>Dr. Smith: Absolutely. I pastored that church from 1976 to 1995, almost 20 years. >>Doug Sweeney: And that’s the church in Cincinnati? >>Dr. Smith: All right. >>Doug Sweeney: Did you live in Louisville while you were in school or did you commute? >>Dr. Smith: We had a house in Louisville. We purchased a house. Actually it was. And I stayed close to ... I lived on the campus is what it was, so it was really an apartment there. That enabled me to come down and take classes and then go back and preach on Wednesday, do my visitations during the week, had a wonderful group of elders and deacons who believed in me and the church believed in me – that these men would help me and relieve me of many pastoral responsibilities in order that I could finish school. >>Doug Sweeney: Well, I know you pretty well. I know you’re the kind of man who would have been a wonderful pastor your whole life long, just serving the same congregation for decades and decades. But I also know that that’s not how it went for you. You pastored for a long time. You preached your whole life long. But there came a point when you got called into a teaching ministry in a seminary as well. What was that experience like? Was it difficult for you to sort out what the Lord wanted? How did that go? >>Dr. Smith: It was difficult because that was my home church. 28 years, 8 years as an assistant pastor, 20 years as a senior pastor. The church the Lord had told me, “You can’t leave until the debt has been retired.” We had bought a new building, the first time the church had a new edifice that was its own really in 100 years. So, when that debt was retired in 1993, June 1st, the Lord says now get prepared, your work here is almost finished. I didn’t want to leave. Because I loved that church. I had a love affair with that church. That church had a love affair with me. And so I pastored and I stayed there for a year and a half. And then in 1994 after the debt was retired Southern Seminary after I walked across the stage to get my degree which was December 15, 1994 – right then I was the assistant professor of preaching. And the Carl E Bates Associate Professor of Preaching under the auspices of that chair. It was hard because I was leaving a church that I loved and yet I was doing what God was calling me to do and that was to teach. My wife puts it best. Wanda Taylor Smith – my wife now of 38 years. She says, “My husband was not leaving the pastorate, he was just changing locations.” And she was right. Because the classroom became my pastorate. The students became my parishioners. And that way it was easy because the only way I know how to teach is through pastoral supervision and sharing and entering into the lives of my students both in class and outside of class, outside of the class. >>Doug Sweeney: Well, of course, you’re one of the seminary professors who has preached more than any others. Just thinking about your decades of service in seminary ministry – I can’t think of a seminary professor who has preached more regularly while being a full time seminary professor than you have. How did you figure out how to steward your time as a young seminary professor? And kind of get your stride when it came to teaching, preaching, and other kinds of ministries? >>Dr. Smith: Most of my preaching has taken place at Beeson. Not at Southern Seminary as much, but at Beeson – which meant sometimes that locally I would preach and a bigger problem, preach in Birmingham, no problem, it’s an hour away. If I went up to Huntsville, 90 minutes. Sometimes my students would drive me up there and drive me back. Sometimes if it was further away, which I would not miss class, I’d drive up and spend the night, get up about 4:00 AM, two hour drive, drive back to Birmingham, get into my office at 6:10 AM, start my classes at 8:00AM. God gave me energy. Like Elijah who ate that second meal and went on a 40 day journey to Mt. Horeb on the strength of that meal. s So, it was strength that was not my own. Sometimes they would send the private plane and I don’t say that arrogantly, I don’t like private planes personally, but it’s still a private plane, in order to pick me up and bring me back that same night. Because it was impossible to get there and get back, because I wasn’t going to miss the classroom. So, that’s something that God just put that together. >>Doug Sweeney: All right. You mentioned Beeson already. I want to ask you how did you get to Beeson? How did you hear about Beeson? Probably Timothy George and you were friends from Southern Seminary? Did he kind of twist your arm? Or how did you get to Beeson Divinity School? >>Dr. Smith: Dr. George and I were at Southern Seminary for a while. I didn’t know Dr. George. He didn’t know me! But one day in January of 1997 I got a call from his administrative assistant. Her name was Beth. She said that the Dean wanted to speak with me. I didn’t know him. But I answered his phone call. He said there’s a vacancy in the preaching department which is significant for our school. And we’d like to know if you’d be interested. I said unapologetically, “Thank you, but no, I’m very happy at Southern Seminary. I love my students.” Because I wanted him to know my emphasis is on the students. I don’t care about anything else. I love my students. I feel like that’s where I’m supposed to be. Next week he calls, next week he calls. I give him the same answer. And then he said, “Well, would you send me a resume?” I said, “No, sir. I’m not interested.” And I told my wife, of course, about all of this. She said, “You ought to at least send him the resume, because he said he would keep it confidentially.” She said, “After all, the Lord may be up to something.” I said to her, “I don’t want the Lord to be up to something.” I don’t want to have to drive 500 miles one way and 500 miles back. Plus I’m happy. I’m getting ready to get tenure! I’m getting ready to be the head of the DMIN department in Black Church Studies! All these things are going to happen to me and ... No, no, no. I listened to my wife. I’m like Pilate, I listened to her. Hmm? And she was right. Then he invited me to come down. Flew me down from Louisville to Birmingham. I remember the price of that ticket. It was in the $900 frame. In 1997. Flew me down, the first restaurant he took me to, [inaudible 00:14:52] I don’t know anything about Ruth ... I met with the search committee, Dr. Ken Matthews, Dr. Day and Jill [MC-COO 00:15:02] who is no longer with our faculty. I just told them, “I don’t want to really be here. I’m not really interested in the position. But I came down here to see whether a bush was burning and whether a voice was speaking from it.” To use the metaphor of Moses. And the bush burned and the fire though it burned it did not consume the bush and God’s voice did speak to me. To make a long story short, the last time I came ... I had several visits down here ... he took me to THE club. And we went to THE club. Very prestigious with the orange rolls. You and I just went there the other day. >>Doug Sweeney: We did. >>Dr. Smith: He sent me, because the board of trustees were meeting on April 15th and they were going to give me tenure and all that ... I had to make a decision. He took me to THE club and sent me in a few days a picture of the sign that The Club was located on. It says, “Robert Smith Drive.” He says, “That’s the sign! That’s the omen that you’re supposed to come here.” He was right. I was recommended by Dr. James Earl Massey when Dr. George called Dr. Massey and said, “If you could get any homiletician in the world, and money was not even an issue, who would it be?” He said, “Robert Smith.” And then Dr. George hung up the phone immediately and called Dr. David [inaudible 00:16:35] and asked him the same question and got the same answer. I don’t understand that. I don’t understand it at all. On the basis of those two recommendations he pursued me. And I didn’t even know him and he didn’t know me. >>Doug Sweeney: What was Beeson Divinity School like back then? What was it that the Lord used to show you the bush was burning? What was the attraction? >>Dr. Smith: What attracted me was, number one, it was bible centered. I mean, I didn’t have to adjust the bible, I just needed to trust the bible. And present the bible without any kind of alterations. Second of all, it was what Dean George called, “A geography of stewardship.” You had Blacks, Whites, Asians, Hispanics ... I don’t know if we had any Native Americans ... but that attracted me because eschatology is huge for me. I think that the church ought to be a Kodak Moment of the future state of eternity. We are a mirror. An anticipatory proleptic way of the Kingdom of God. The third thing, it was small. It was small so that now I could have a classroom in which I could know every student intimately. I tell my students every opening of fall semester, I want to be three things – your pastor, your friend, your professor. If I can be your pastor and your friend, I’m confident I can be your professor. With 10, 12, sometimes 16 you can do that. With 60, 80, and 100 ... can’t do that. That attracted me. >>Doug Sweeney: I honestly don’t think I know of a professor in the history of Beeson Divinity School about whom more students say things like, “He is my spiritual father.” And students wouldn’t say that about you if your relationships with them didn’t matter a great deal to you. You know I’m trying to cultivate our faculty in such a way that it’s full of people who are just like you – share that kind of passion that you have for mentoring students, shepherding students, encouraging students in their ministry ... why is that so important to you? Have you always been like that? Ever since the days you wanted to hang out with older people when you were a boy? >>Dr. Smith: Yeah. I want to turn ink ... and this is just the reverse of TS Elliot, I want to turn ink into blood. What I write, pages that I read, I want to turn that into blood so that I transfer the cranial to the cardiological, to the heart. Which translates into relationality. Eugene Petersen in his work, his book, “Working the Angles,” the shape of pastoral integrity, says that there are three lines that are important in ministry. And I’m adding this – they will help you get a job. One – preaching, two – teaching, three – administration. You can get a job with those. What will keep you in the job are the angles that hold the line together. Prayer, spiritual reading, and spiritual direction. Being with students has helped me to remain here and has improved my prayer life, my appetite for scripture, and however a degree a wisdom God has given me as it relates to spiritual direction. That’s been huge to me and that’s what I would say to every student also – work all the angles and don’t just work on the lines. >>Doug Sweeney: Where does the commitment, the drive come from in you when it comes to spending time with students? Let me pose this in a way that’s going to seem funny but we’re friends and I know you can handle it. And it will help for our listeners. So, you’re one of the most beloved, highly sought after preachers in the country. And you have been for quite awhile. But you spend hours and hours and hours getting ready to minister to our students – all the time. Every week. Most high profile preachers don’t operate like that. How did you become somebody who operates like that? How did that kind of commitment stay in you through all the years when on the weekends you were jet setting and preaching all over the place? What was it that drew you back and made you spend so much time pouring yourself into these students? >>Dr. Smith: I’ve had fathers in the ministry – three of them, namely. One, Reverend EL Alexander, my childhood pastor. Who challenged me, who stretched me, who disciplined me. Who gave me the most searing and piercing critique I’ve ever had in 58 years of ministry. That is when I was 19 years of age and getting ready to preach a youth day at his church, which was now Shiloh Missionary Baptist Church in Ohio. I had an 18 page manuscript, hand-written. He’d asked me, because he’d seen me stay up all night, “Do you have your sermon, Bobby?” He called me Bobby. I said, “Yes, sir.” “Let me see it.” I showed it to him. He says, “You gonna need all of that to say what you need to say in 20 minutes to these young people? If you can’t remember all of that, and you’ve written it down, how are they going to remember it?” All I had done is taken this commentary and wrote it down word for word. He took every single page and tore it up – and we had to be in church in 30 minutes. He said, “No, go get your sermon.” That changed me. He wasn’t against a manuscript because he used it all the time. He just knew that it wasn’t in me. It was on the paper. Second of all, George [inaudible 00:23:23] – discipline from Alexander, George for his delivery. I’ve known him and went with him all the way from Cincinnati all the way up to Canton, Ohio. He would preach to the congregation. There was about seven people there. And he preached with such passion and gave his heart. Every time he preached I don’t care what the audience was. So, for passionate delivery. But then James Earl Massey ... hmm. He was a consummate preacher. He brought it all together with integrity. And they all poured their lives into mine. All of them. I’m a debtor. It’s a privilege to have people who come and want your company, want your prayers, want your love. They’re not ... I’m the blessed one. I’m the blessed one. And God has spared my life. So, I’m blessed – this is not a job. Never has been. It’s a joy. It’s a joy. So, freely you have received, freely give. It’s like for me as inhaling and exhaling. It’s just normal. It’s just natural. It’s not me, it’s Christ who worketh in me both to will and do of his good pleasure. It’s Christ who does it. Yeah. >>Doug Sweeney: That’s wonderful. You sure have had a blessed ministry at Beeson for a long time. If you were going to represent Beeson to a group of people who had heard about it but didn’t know much about it – and they wanted to ask you, Dr. Smith, “What’s it like there?” How would you characterize Beeson Divinity School? And what’s special enough about what the Lord has made Beeson to be and has been doing at Beeson through teachers like you over the years? What’s special enough to keep someone like Robert Smith here for as long as he did? >>Dr. Smith: It’s family. It’s family. There is no way to come to Beeson a stranger and leave a stranger. You come to Beeson and you get love bombarded, a love bomb – and people genuinely care about you. Professors care about you. Professors and students eat lunch together. We go to the hospitals. Unfortunately we go to funerals. We certainly go to weddings. We walk together. We share together. If you want more than just an education, if you want an experience – come to Beeson. If you want an education and a diploma, that’s one thing. But if you really want an experience that is going to define you and refine you and shape you for the rest of your life, Beeson is where you want to be. >>Doug Sweeney: Well, we announced at the top of the show that this is going to be your last year of full time teaching ministry at Beeson. You’ll be retiring in a way ... (laughter) ... at the end of this academic year. But for those who are interested out of curiosity and even more so for those who love you and are listening to this interview, tell us what you think the Lord has in store for you at the end of this academic year? What is your “retirement” going to look like? >>Dr. Smith: Well, as you know, I call it re-assignment. Because I don’t think the word “retirement” is in the vocabulary of the bible. I mean, you can retire from careers and so forth, but not from ministry. Of course you know that. The bible says in Revelation 2:10 “Be thou faithful until death and I’ll give you a crown of life.” ... not “until you retire.” So, that’s the way I go with that. I explain to people because I’ve been getting a lot of questions that stem from my announcement. I explain to them that right now I’m sailing uncharted waters and traveling under sealed orders. I’m sailing uncharted waters, waters I’ve never navigated or sailed before. This is new. I don’t know where I’m sailing. I’m like Abraham, in Hebrews 11:8, “And Abraham went out not knowing where he was going.” He didn’t know where he was going, but he wasn’t lost because God was leading him. God is leading me. I just don’t know where. I’m sailing uncharted waters, but I’m traveling under sealed orders. I have the orders, they’re in the envelope, a mystery. And they’re sealed. I don’t know when God is going to say, “That’s it. Stop. Now open up the envelope and read your orders.” And wherever, whatever the orders say, since God is my business manager, I’m going to do. But right now it’s awfully fun to me to sail uncharted waters and to know that the orders are there and when he says it’s time to reveal them to me, I’ll just keep sailing until I’m sure about where he wants me to go. My desire is I will ever remain connected with Beeson Divinity School. Because this is really where it has happened. And this is the city I love and these are the people I most want to be with. But he is my business manager. We’ll see. I’m going to have fun, though. >>Doug Sweeney: We’ll all follow the Lord’s leading. As we were talking about over lunch today, you’re also going to keep your office here, going to keep a condo here- >>Dr. Smith: That’s right! >>Doug Sweeney: ... we’re going to be blessed with plenty of Robert Smith down the road. >>Dr. Smith: You won’t get rid of me. >>Doug Sweeney: That’s great. Well, before we wrap things up, one new thing the Lord has been doing in your life recently is this ESV Audio Bible that you have read. I’m going to ask you to tell us what it is. I’m looking forward to when its published because on my driving trips I want to listen to Dr. Smith read scripture to me. What is the ESV Audio Bible? How did they talk you into doing whatever you did? And what did you do? >>Dr. Smith: Well, Dr. Paul House recommended me to Crossway to do this. Now they had several auditions. A number of people. And they gave me samples of various scriptures, passages, pericopes, paragraphs to read. I had to read them, record them of course, and then they listened to it, I guess they wanted the voice and the intensity and the inflections, all that stuff. I came back as a finalist. So, I signed the contract for it. I wanted to do it ... Well, let me tell you what it did for me. This has been the greatest challenge in my ministry life. A greater challenge than any sermon I’ve ever tried to preach or any lecture I’ve ever tried to deliver. >>Doug Sweeney: Really? >>Dr. Smith: Oh yeah. The greatest challenge. Number one, it increased my appetite for scripture. So that I developed a more insatiable appetite. I couldn’t get enough of it. Still can’t. Number two, it exposed my ignorance of scripture. I thought I knew a little bit about scripture. I realized I was ignorant. I was ignorant. So, it exposed that. It gave me in six weeks ... I would get up, try to be in bed by 9:00 and try to ... I’d get up at 2:00 every morning, sometimes earlier. I found myself reading scripture in my mind. I mean, just reading it. Sometimes I couldn’t tell whether I was dreaming or whether I was actually doing it. I’d go to my office outside of our home and I would read scripture from 3:00 to about 8:30, something like that. Maybe 9:00. I’d try to be in bed by 9:00 but sometimes I didn’t make that because of where I was in the reading. So, I would read- >>Doug Sweeney: So, you’re talking about from 3AM to 9PM??? >>Dr. Smith: Yeah! Yeah. >>Doug Sweeney: We’ve got to pause on that for a moment because as I mentioned to you when I got a taste of what you’re doing before we started recording, I said, “Unless God did some kind of miraculous work in me, physically I don’t think I could do that.” >>Dr. Smith: Yeah. He did. The amazing thing about it was that I really wasn’t tired. What I did ... I had to ... and this is before the reading. I had to look at every passage, every story ... on whatever it was that I was reading, and find myself in the history of that story. The historical context. The literary context. The kind of material I was reading. Whether it was epistolary or prophetic or law – whatever. Then asked myself, “Where is the theo centristic? Where is God in terms of being central?” Where is the Christo centristic? Where is Jesus? Where is the [inaudible 00:33:43]? Where is the Holy Spirit? How do I take and move into 2000 years of history back into that place? What are the emotions that are there? What is the voice tone? What was it like for Jesus to appear to Thomas? What was it like for him to see the nails in his side and hands and to say, “My Lord, My God.” How did he say that? How did he feel? How was he moved? All of those things. It wasn’t just about enunciation and pronunciation and so forth. Yes, that’s important. I listened to maybe the NIV, certain words that were pronounced that I didn’t have down pat. So, I came to the Chronicles passage and all these genealogies and names and so forth. Oh my goodness. I said, “Lord, I can’t get through this.” I said, I just can’t. I might as well just give up! And I struggled and it would take three hours to get through one chapter. I’m telling you. I’m telling you! Yet the Lord helped me to do that. So now when I go back and I’m reading scripture and I say, did I read that? I’m amazed. I actually pronounced that right and read. Did I read that!? Yeah, so I did all of that. Then we just go through it. I’m grateful for the staff at Zion Global Ministries. They’d bring me my coffee with tea and bring me water, whatever. Because I had a soundproof booth at Crossway, the technicians set up, everything was set up. It’s just to me a miracle. It’s an absolute miracle. God did it. So, if I ever have a lack of faith in what God can do, he takes me right back to that moment. I didn’t do that. >>Doug Sweeney: The way you describe it, not only is there biblical learning that’s required, not only is there a lot of physical stamina that’s required, not only does the Lord have to preserve your vocal chords and your larynx and so on, but there’s a lot of mental energy that’s being sustained for hours of this kind of activity. >>Dr. Smith: Yeah. >>Doug Sweeney: And you’re even ... not to overdo this ... what you’re mostly doing is reading God’s Word to us, but in the way you make decisions about inflection and emphasis and so on – you’re also doing a little bit of interpreting. You’re helping us to receive God’s Word in the best way. >>Dr. Smith: Yes. Yes. >>Doug Sweeney: My goodness. So, when this comes out, what do we get? We get Dr. Smith reading from Genesis through Revelation? >>Dr. Smith: Yes. >>Doug Sweeney: And we can listen from beginning to end or maybe we can bounce around and go book by book. We can do whatever we want? >>Dr. Smith: Oh yeah. But see, their whole idea was we can get people ... and I won’t name names ... it’s not to demean anyone either ... who are professional readers. Perfect diction. On and on and on. But they’re reading from a bible that’s really foreign to them. And they’re reading from a bible that they don’t believe in. And one in particular that doesn’t even believe in God. You get a voice. You get from the neck up. But with this series, you get from the head down. It’s cognitive, it’s effective. There’s transformation that’s there. So, when you hear ... who was the person that we had to do our alumni ... last year? >>Doug Sweeney: Gavin Ortlund. >>Dr. Smith: Okay. His father. You’re getting someone who has invested his whole life. He believes in what the scriptures say. He’s not just reading words. >>Doug Sweeney: Ray Ortlund is a pastor himself. >>Dr. Smith: That’s what I’m talking about. >>Doug Sweeney: Okay. Well, I can’t wait. And this comes out in a month or two? >>Dr. Smith: Yeah, they say January, or something like that. With the marketing technicalities and all of that, they want to present the very best they can present in terms of sound and they want to market it well. They said it’s going to be something that will be heard around the world. They keep moving it back and that’s fine. >>Doug Sweeney: Sounds like a wonderful thing. Well, Dr. Smith, we’d better wrap things up. As you know, what we like to do these days when we conclude our podcast interviews is ask our guests what the Lord is doing in their lives these days? What is the Lord teaching you these days? So, I ask you – does the famous Robert Smith who has been walking with the Lord since you were a boy, thinking about ministry since you were a teenager, and is now in your 70s and thinking about retiring – are you at an age where the Lord has stopped doing things in you and teaching you things? Or is he still teaching you some things? >>Dr. Smith: Still. I think the Lord is saying to me ... I know he is and has been ... that life is too short to be mediocre. I don’t mean being great in sight of others but I’m talking about doing something that will only have value as long as you live. I want to do excellent work and provide excellent service for my Lord. Not for the name. My name means nothing. No, no, no. Why spend this time on earth and just be mediocre? Be average? God has called us to do things that are exceptional, that bring honor and glory to him so that people will say, “Wow, he must serve a great God.” >>Doug Sweeney: Friends, you have been listening to the Reverend Dr. Robert Smith Jr. He serves as the Charles T Carter Professor, Baptist Chair of Divinity here at Beeson Divinity School. He teaches preaching, pastoral ministry ... he is a spiritual father to hundreds and hundreds of Beeson students and alumni – and other people around the world. He’s a dear friend. He’ll be retiring at the end of this year. And we love him dearly. We will make sure that he comes back and rubs shoulders with us and preaches for us and ministers to us for as long as the Lord gives him life and breath. But this is his last year of full time teaching here at Beeson. So, please pray for him as he turns the next page. As he opens that envelope and looks at what the Lord has for him in the next stage of his ministry. Please pray for the dear students of Beeson Divinity School. We are praying for you. We love you. And we say goodbye for now. >>Rob Willis: You’ve been listening to the Beeson podcast; coming to you from the campus of Samford University. Our theme music is by Advent Birmingham. Our announcer is Mike Pasquarello. Our engineer is Rob Willis. And our show host is Doug Sweeney. For more episodes and to subscribe, visit www.BeesonDivinity.com/podcast. You can also find the Beeson Podcast on iTunes and Spotify.