Beeson Podcast, Episode #659
Dr. Valerie Duvall Poujol
Date

>>Announcer: 

Welcome to the Beeson podcast, coming to you from Beeson Divinity School on the campus of Samford University. Now your host, Doug Sweeney. 


>>Doug Sweeney:

Welcome to the Beeson Podcast. I’m your host, Doug Sweeney. Today we continue our 2023 Greatest Hits Podcast series with a sermon by Dr. Valerie Duvall Poujol. Dr. Poujol presented a series of lectures in 2019 on the challenges of translating the bible today. This message is entitled, “Encountering Mary Magdalene: From Outcast to Apostle.” In this sermon, Dr. Poujol addresses how the role of women in the bible has often been minimized or mischaracterized by tradition or suffered marginalization in some bible translations. 

She specifically speaks to this in relation to Mary Magdalene as the first witness to the resurrection. And as the apostle to the apostles. However, she begins by putting Mary Magdalene in the company of other women in both the Old and New Testament. Dr. Poujol also highlights a few of Jesus’ interactions with women to show how Jesus overcame the hierarchical structures of his time an inaugurated a renewed humanity in accordance with God’s original creation of male and female. 

Let’s go now to Hodges Chapel and hear Dr. Valerie Duvall Poujol. 


>>Reader:

A reading from the Gospel according to St. John:

Now on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene came to the tomb early while it was still dark and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb. So, she ran and went to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one whom Jesus loved, and said to them, “They have taken the Lord out of the tomb and we do not know where they have laid him.” So, Peter went out with the other disciple and they were going toward the tomb. Both of them were running together but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. And stooping to look in he saw the linen cloths lying there but he did not go in. 

Then Simon Peter came following him and went into the tomb. He saw the linen cloths lying there and the face cloth, which had been on Jesus’ head not lying with the linen cloths but folded up in a place by itself. Then the other disciple who had reached the tomb first also went in and he saw and believed. For as yet they did not understand the scripture that he must rise from the dead. Then the disciples went back to their homes.

But Mary stood weeping outside the tomb. And as she wept she stopped to look into the tomb and she saw two angels in white sitting where the body of Jesus had lain. One at the head and one at the feet. They said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping?” She said to them, “They have taken away my Lord and I do not know where they have laid him.” Having said this she turned around and saw Jesus standing, but she did not know that it was Jesus. Jesus said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you seeking?” Supposing him to be the gardener, she said to him, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have laid him and I will take him away.” 

Jesus said to her, “Mary.” She turned and said to him in Aramaic, “Rabboni,” which means “teacher.” Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to me for I have not yet ascended to the Father, but go to my brothers and say to them I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.” Mary Magdalene went and announced to the disciples, “I have seen the Lord.” And that he had said these things to her. 

The Word of the Lord.
Thanks be to God.


>>Poujol:

Bonjour! It means hello ... (laughs) What a tremendous joy to be here with you, my dear brothers and sisters. I feel privileged to be here and share these few days with you all at Beeson. I especially express my gratitude to Dr. George, you esteemed Dean, for his invitation, his hospitality, and his trust. I thank God for his ministry, especially for all his energy in building bridges between Christians in order to make the unity of the children of God more visible. His commitment to unity is an example for me, for many Christians around the world, and I feel honored to know him.

The very first time I came here and visited this chapel in February of 2014, I was taking part with Dr. George in a week of theological dialogue between the Baptist World Alliance and the Messages Council. I still vividly remember how I was powerfully moved by the cloud of witnesses still pictured in this chapel. Surrounded by this cloud of great witnesses as the author of Hebrews wrote. Let us run the race that is set before us. Let us fix our eyes on Jesus. And this is my prayer for our time together and now while we study and listen to God’s word that we may fix our eyes on Jesus and learn from him about God, God’s love for us, and to be a little more like him. Amen? This is our prayer.

One day, 2000 years ago, a woman poured a very expensive perfume on Jesus’ head and Jesus said these words to her, about her, “Wherever the gospel is preached, all over the world, what she has done will be told in memory of her.” Wherever the gospel is preached. So, I guess that in all our churches, all our seminaries, all our evangelism meetings and campaigns, wherever the good news, the gospel, is preached – each time we celebrate the death and resurrection of the Lord we do speak about this woman and what she has done. We remember her as Jesus has asked us to do. 

Well, do we? I don’t know about the States but I know what the answer would be in Europe. Not only we do not remember her, but the evangelists Matthew or Mark who tell us the story do not even recall her name. This woman admired by Jesus and that we should all admire what is her name? 

This woman, introduced by our Lord himself as a model, an example of the adoration that all Christians would give to the future risen Christ. What is her story? What has she become? We do not know at all. We know nothing. She is anonymous. For eternity she will only be called a woman. With this elliptic title in your bibles, Jesus is anointed at Bethany. She is symbolic of all these women in the biblical stories, or in the church history, that have played an important role but that we have forgotten that we have silenced. A catholic theologian, Elizabeth [inaudible 00:08:07] has written a book called, “In Memory of Her.” Inspired by the story of this anonymous woman. I would like to invite us this morning to honor what our Lord Jesus has commanded to remember this woman, and I suggest we do so not by mentioning her, as we just have, but by remembering all the woman of the bible often neglected or whose role has been minimized by tradition or by bible translations. 

We will more specifically speak of Mary Magdala at the end of the preaching, but before let us briefly mention two others – one in the Old Testament and one in the New. For the Old Testament I would like to mention one woman dramatically lacking fame. Who among you has ever heard of the Prophetess called Ulda? That’s a good school. Some of you know her, very good. Well, you know all the prophetesses of the Old Testament like Deborah, who was also judged. Or Miriam, Moses’ sister. But Ulda is rarely known.

You will find her story in II Kings 22. We are seven centuries before Christ. King Josiah is ruling Judah and Jerusalem. And a scroll of the law, probably Deuteronomy, is found in the house of the Lord. The temple. The king wants to consult the Lord about the scroll and his high officials go and inquire the prophetess Ulda about the book. She delivers a message to the king, interpreting the scriptures, and as a result, Josiah implements the largest cultural and spiritual reform of all times. So, they went to see Ulda, yet at the very same period there were two other important male prophets. They even have left us books bearing their names. Stephania or the most famous Jeremiah. 

But it is a woman that has been chosen to deliver this powerful message from God and enable the most powerful change in the religious landscape of her country. Unfortunately, if you open your bible in II Kings 22 well Ulda does not even deserve a title. You know that in oldest manuscripts of the Hebrew bible or Greek New Testament they did not have titles. And it is the responsibility of bible translators to choose the titles. Well, it is striking how often women, even when they play a key role, do not deserve a title. It depends on the bible versions, of course.

Look in Joshua 2 for instance. No Rahab in the title but only “The Spies in Jericho.” Well, in the same way, Ulda has disappeared from all titles and your bibles only tell of the book of the law is found. Her lack of fame does not correspond to the tremendous influence she had in Israel’s history. 

In the New Testament, I would like us to remember another traditionally neglected woman. Have you ever heard of a woman apostle called Junia the apostle? Well, if you have not, it is because your bible translators have turned her into a male name. Let us read Romans 16:7 and I will read from the King James. Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, (in Greek, my relatives or my fellow Jews) and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me. “Who is of note among the apostles.” Which outstanding apostle Paul is praising here? 

Some bible translations mention here Junia, a woman. Others mention Junias, a man. Well, let me tell you that every single biblical evidence we have in the first centuries of this passage of Romans and some Greek manuscripts, commentaries, and preaching of the church fathers – all versions of the New Testament – they all confirm a female name, a woman apostle. It is only from the 13th century onwards that bible translators have started being disturbed by a woman apostle. And have decided to create a male name – Junias. 

I say “create” because if Junia is a well known female name in the first century Rome, the name Junias simply does not exist. Even as a shortening of a longer name. And more recently, other translators compelled to recognize that Junia is a woman’s name have changed the end of the sentence. She’s not outstanding among the apostles anymore. But well known to the apostles. Which is, and I speak as a bible translator, absolutely impossible in Greek. 

So, leaving Ulda and Junia and before encountering another underestimated woman, Mary of Magdala, I would like us to think of Jesus. After all, he is our model. He is the one we look at to be inspired, to know how to behave. What has been his attitude towards women during his ministry? When you think of him meeting women, speaking with them, how do you picture him? What comes to your mind?

Jesus has had an incredible attitude in the women around him. With the women he has met. An impressive freedom considering them with respect, dignity, and treating them as equals. And he was living in a very difficult time for women. A rather patriarchic culture you could say. To give you an example, the daily Jewish prayer according to tradition, what a pious Jew was supposed to say every day in his prayer was the following: “Thank you Lord that you have not made me a woman.”

Or listen to what [inaudible 00:14:30] a Jewish historian of the time of Jesus declared, “The woman is inferior to the man in all respects.” In all respects. This is Jesus’ time. In contrast with this culture of his time let us remember a few episodes of Jesus’ life in respect with woman. Of course without mentioning them all. 

He has women as disciples. Several are anonymous, others are called by their names like Johanna, wife of Herod’s business manager, or Susannah. The fact that Jesus had women as followers contrasted to the practice of his day where women were not allowed education. Jesus takes time to teach them. For instance, in Bethany. You remember this episode when Jesus rebukes Martha and encourages her to choose the best part? Showing her sister Mary as an example. The text in Luke 10 says that Mary was sitting at his feet, listening to what he said. Sitting at his feet. This is an expression in Greek to describe the attitude of a disciple, listening to his Rabbi, his teacher. 

It shows that Jesus accepted to have this relationship of teacher/student with a woman. And by blaming Martha for her activism on that day he tells every woman that she’s not obliged to be limited to domestic activities, traditional duties, but that another way is opening up to education, instruction – a way reserved to men until then.

Remember that the Jewish tradition used to say it is better that the words of the law should be burned than they should be given to a woman. Or elsewhere in the Mishna – if a man gives his daughter a knowledge of the law, it is as thought he taught her [inaudible 00:16:32], old English for “lust.” 

Jesus takes time to teach Mary and she is not the only one in Bethany to get instructions. Jesus also took time with Martha as you can see from a powerful confession in front of her brother’s tomb. Remember her statement of faith? She said to him, “Yes, Lord. I believe you are the Christ. The Son of God who is coming into this world.” John 11. Do we realize that she is saying the exact same word as Peter in the three other gospels? And that Jesus said to Peter it is so powerful that on this declaration I will build my church? As you may notice, Peter deserves a title for this declaration. Peter confesses Jesus as Messiah, but Martha with the exact same words does not deserve any title. 

Jesus discusses theology with Mary, Martha, and also with the Samaritan woman in John 4. Remember this incredible dialogue? She tells him, “I know that the Messiah is coming and when he comes he will tell us all things.” And in verse 26 Jesus answers to her, “I who speak to you am he.” Do you hear the words of Jesus? I am. Have you ever heard them before in other passages? Well, the gospel of John is your chapel theme this semester, so you all know these words. You know that these words appear in the gospel a lot. I am the bread of life. I am the light of the world. 

But here this is a very first time of all. I am. And elsewhere in the bible, these are the exact same words that God is using to introduce himself to Moses at the burning bush in Exodus 33:14. Well, you will tell me because you are clever students and teachers. Exodus is written in Hebrew and the Gospel of John in Greek. How do you connect or compare these passages? Well, we have to thank the first translation of the bible. The so-called Septuagint. The translation in Greek of the Torah. I will tell you more about it, about this translation in my conferences. It means that the person to whom Jesus is powerfully declaring his identity as Messiah, as Christ, is a woman [inaudible 00:19:03] and he entrusts her with his treasure as God had done with Moses. It shows us how deep this dialogue with the Samaritan woman through the eyes of John has been.

Jesus is also restoring the dignity of the woman that was crippled, bent over since 18 years. Not only did he heal her physically but also he restored her by calling her “daughter of Abraham,” Luke 13. The use of this expression is unprecedented. We know the expression sons of Abraham, son of Abraham, but daughter of Abraham is unheard of before. None had ever used it before Jesus and Jesus chooses to apply this title to the crippled woman. Now she is no longer bowing, she is able to stand, no more infirmity, no more indignity. Coheir with the man of every blessing promised to Abraham. 

Jesus let the woman touch him – either literally, physically, or symbolically, emotionally. Think of the Canaanite woman in Matthew 15 who led him to broaden his mission field. The woman who had sinned and came into Simon’s house by letting her pour out perfume on his head, he lets her perform the same kind of anointing that was done in ancient times to anoint kings on the head. That was also the woman subjected to bleeding, remember? She admits she is the one who touched his cloak. “Who has touched me?” And she said, “It is me.” She had always been rejected, mishandled, felt impure – how will Jesus react to her? Well, Jesus far from getting upset treats her with tenderness, calling her in a very gentle way, “My daughter.” There is no one else in the four gospels that Jesus is calling my son or my daughter. He was in his thirties, she certainly was older than he is. And this very rare expression indicates a tremendous tenderness to her. 

Jesus has let women touch him literally, physically, and symbolically, emotionally. Jesus sees them. Jesus told Simon the Pharisee, when this woman came to wash his feet, even though Simon had not done any gesture to welcome Jesus, “Do you see this woman?” Another way of telling, “Well, you my dear Simon, you have not seen her.” Or, “You have only seen her through your eyes of reproving and despising.” Jesus observes women with great attention. Notice that when he speaks in parable he uses alternatively pictures from the male world and pictures from the female world. Let us hear this balance. What is the kingdom of God like? And to what should I compare it? It is like a man who has lost a sheep. A woman who has lost a coin. A woman who uses yeast. A man who finds a pearl of great value. 

And when he admires the landscape we find the same balance. He mentions the lilies, which neither tall nor [inaudible 00:22:38] female activity. And the birds in the air, they do not sow or reap. A male activity. Ordinary gestures, daily duties of men and woman are valued, [inaudible 00:22:52] because their simplicity tells something of the mystery of God’s Kingdom. It means Jesus quotes women like this widow in the temple, you remember, who out of her poverty gave all she had to live on. This widow, no one saw her except Jesus. And this is her that he is truly scrutinizing. He does not know her, but he only observes and admires her. Jesus sees her as he also sees the despair of the widow of the small town of [inaudible 00:23:26]. 

To sum up, it means that Jesus dares to meet women. He chooses them as friends, as missionaries, as theologians. Women in the gospels are real partners for Christ. They talk with him. They ask questions. They argue. They love him. In a word, they behave freely with dignity. Christ has liberated a whole new area. Not because he was a feminist before his time. Or because he was preferring women. But because he incarnated a new creation. That is accomplished at Easter. Jesus restores what was designed at the creation. [inaudible 00:24:10] at the beginning of Genesis 1 & 2 when God created man and woman in his image, when he gave to both the authority to rule the earth, Jesus overcomes the abusive hierarchical structures of his time. The domination of man over women that was a consequence of the fall, not God’s design for his creation. 

This is what Paul would sum up when he declares in Galatians 3:28, and you all know it by heart, “There is no more Jews, nor Greek, no more male nor female, for you are all one in Christ.” This passage describes a renewed humanity in Christ. It is a direct echo to the story of creation where male and female he created them. Male and female. The exact same words in Genesis and in Galatians. Even if sometimes your bible translators prefer men and women. This is what Jesus has lived, shown in his teaching, in his daily life. And that should have consequences on the way we live our relationship between men and women. 

Last but not least, at a time when the testimony of women was not valid, not recognized, he has chosen a woman as the very first witness to his resurrection. Mary of Magdala. And we will now tell more about her. I have not forgotten her at all. I only wanted to include her in a wider selection of women, a cloud of witnesses as in this chapel. Witnesses here that have been mistreated by tradition or translation, Ulda and Junia, and secondly to understand the context of her time and the attitude of Jesus. 

So, let us finish by focusing on Mary of Magdala. As the first witness of the resurrection of Jesus and because she has been the very first to be entrusted with the greatest mission of all time – proclaiming that death has been conquered, that Christ is risen from the dead. She is the first link in the chain that leads from Jesus’ resurrection to us today. The first thing to say about Mary of Magdala is that you should forget the movie of the same name – the apocrypha, the agnostic gospel of Philip, or even the Davinci Code. Forget all about that and let us focus on the gospels. 

Yes. There are many many Mary’s in the gospels. It was one of the most common names at that time. Mary, Miriam, Meriam, if you consider only the gospels you will find at least five or six of them. [inaudible 00:27:03] is Mary of Magdala. Magdala being probably her hometown or large village located on the shore of the Tiberius Sea. Others have understood her name to be a nickname, “Mary the Tower, the rich.” “Mary, the one who is powerful.” Her life has not been easy. It is said without many details that Jesus has released her from seven demons. We know from all the biblical stories what happens with only one evil spirit and this woman was possessed by seven.

It means that before encountering Jesus, she was suffering a great deal. Tortured by an evil power, dispossessed of herself. Probably excluded from society. Outcast. But nothing in the text, and I will come back on that, nothing describes Mary of Magdala as a sinner, a prostitute, or whatsoever. After her deliverance, she becomes a follower of Jesus. She is integrated into a group. She is restored in her social dignity and identity. Mary of Magdala is then mentioned at different crucial times in Jesus’ life and ministry. She is following him during his years of ministry with his disciples. 

And she is standing at the bottom of the cross during his most painful hours. And she is meeting the risen Christ in front of the empty tomb. Let us focus on this Easter Sunday. The previous days have been horrific. She has seen her master. The man who had given meaning to her life. Who had brought her to freedom – being arrested, judged, condemned, and then crucified on a cross. And now he is dead. She was surrounded by the silence of death. Does she find comfort from the other women crying at the bottom of the cross? And where are the other disciples? Her friends? Her brothers in faith? It seems they have all gone, except John. It is a terrible Friday, a Friday of suffering. 

And you may also have experienced this kind of Friday when hope seems gone. When a beloved one his gone. When sickness prevails. But this Friday is not the end of the story, my friend. Because after Friday at the cross comes Easter Sunday. On Sunday morning, as we have read, Mary is going to the tomb. In John’s gospel she is alone. Not only is she crying because of the death of Jesus, but also because the body is not there anymore. Without the body there is no bereavement. The process of grieving is much harder. And then she sees two angels in the tomb. And she shares with them her problem. Maybe with anger or distress, the text does not tell. 

“They have taken my Lord away. And I don’t know where they have put him.” Then she turns and sees a man. We, as the reader, are lucky because we already know that this is Jesus, but she does not know. And thinking he’s a gardener she is asking where the body is. You know that in the gospel of John many things have also a symbolic value, not only the physical aspect. The reference to a gardener her could be also understood as an illusion to the first garden in Genesis. What is at stake between Jesus and Mary, between the Christ and Humanity, is a re-creation, a new creation, and Jesus as the new Adam. 

Have you noticed how Jesus is calling her by name? “Mary.” The angels had only called her woman anonymously. Not personally. But he calls her by name. As he had done during all these years been together. It is so good to know that our Lord knows us by name. Like the Good Shepherd in John 10 who calls his sheep each by its name. And the text says as Mary answers to him in Aramaic it was good in the translation we heard, not in Hebrew like some say. In Aramaic that means “in a mother tongue.” Remember, it has also happened with Paul on the Damascus Road when Jesus calls him in his native language, “Saul, why do you persecute me?” And this would turn Saul, the church persecutor to Paul the apostle. In the same way Jesus is about to turn Mary into an Apostle. He tells her, “Go to my brothers.” Jesus is sending her to proclaim his resurrection and the sending is “Apostello” and it has given us the word “apostle.” This is the reason why Mary of Magdala would soon be called apostla [foreign language 00:32:08], apostle of the apostles. The first one to call her like that is [inaudible 00:32:13] of Rome. And many church father theologians after him.

Have you also noticed how Jesus talks about the disciples to Mary? But go to my brothers, it is the very first time that the disciples are called “brothers.” And Jesus gives the explanation, “I am ascending to my Father and to your Father. To my God and to your God.” He is their brother. They are adopted by the Father and this makes them children of God. God the Father. Not only Mary is given the mission to share the good news of the resurrection, to say “He is alive,” but also Jesus gives Mary the mission, it’s easy to tell, now they have a new identity. Children of God. That makes them brothers and sisters.

So, Jesus gives Mary a mission that is the heart of Christianity. Resurrection and the spiritual brotherhood of fellowship. I admire God’s choice for this very first witness of this great message – a woman. Someone who has no power. Who does not belong to an important family. Who will even not write a gospel. Who has not many friends on Facebook. But who has the greatest value on God’s eyes. 

Remember that at that time [inaudible 00:33:34] historian already mentioned reports that women’s testimony was not received as valid, they did not have the right to bear witnesses, because “of the thoughtlessness and the rashness of that sex.” How did the disciples react to this message conveyed by Mary? It is so surprising that a woman should be a witness that the disciples themselves, although they know her well, do not believe her. We don’t read that in the gospel of John, but in Luke’s gospel. In the evening of the resurrection the disciples did not believe the woman because their words seemed to them like nonsense. And the Greek word says here, “nonsense, rumbling, sickness, raving.” 

But this disbelief is not the reason why Mary of Magdala is no longer called apostle of the apostles. She was called this until the seventh century when the Pope Gregory the Great accomplished a [foreign language 00:34:34], as we would say in French, and [inaudible 00:34:37] take over by force. He decided to identify Mary of Magdala with another Mary of the gospel and another anonymous woman a sinner. The joining together of the three women into one led to a dramatic consequence. Mary, witness of the resurrection, disappeared – to be only Mary the sinner, model of repentance. 

Mary the apostle of apostles disappeared, not to be mentioned ever again. And yet nothing in the scriptures allows this collision. And in consequence the possibility for women to be great witnesses of the resurrection has also been dramatically reduced in the centuries of church history. His story, as you say in English. 

In some churches today, for Easter, the encounter of Jesus and Mary, the mission he gave to her is not read. As if it was just an insignificant detail in the Easter account. Yet this was not John’s point of view and we thank God that he has recalled the story in the gospel. Mary of Magdala, like Ulda or Junia before her, has been denied the chance to become an inspiring model for every one of us. Let us remember them in memory of them, because they are part of the great cloud of witnesses that surrounds us. 

To conclude, I would like us to think of Paul’s image to describe the church. He compares it to a body with its different members. Let us understand that the Lord’s church is too often today like an [Hemiplegic 00:36:19] body, a body paralyzed on one side. Because of its members, the women are prevented to use the gifts of God as given to them. Prevented to fulfill their calling, to proclaim God’s mission, and share the good news of Jesus Christ to all human beings. 

Let’s say that the church is probably recovering from this paralysis of one side. A slow and difficult recovery. And I wish that we all, students or teachers, American or French, woman or man will help the body to recover. May our Lord help us in that task. Amen. 


>>Rob Willis:

You’ve been listening to the Beeson podcast; coming to you from the campus of Samford University. Our theme music is by Advent Birmingham. Our announcer is Mike Pasquarello. Our engineer is Rob Willis. And our show host is Doug Sweeney. For more episodes and to subscribe, visit www.BeesonDivinity.com/podcast. You can also find the Beeson Podcast on iTunes and Spotify.