Beeson Podcast, Episode #679 Dr. Tom Fuller, Dr. Taeshaun Gardner, Dr. Mike Pasquarello Date >>Announcer: Welcome to the Beeson podcast, coming to you from Beeson Divinity School on the campus of Samford University. Now your host, Doug Sweeney. >>Doug Sweeney: Welcome to the Beeson Podcast. I am your host, Doug Sweeney. I am joined today by three dear friends who are involved in a wonderful new preaching initiative here at Beeson Divinity School. Our Associate Dean, Dr. Tom Fuller, professor and Director of the Robert Smith Jr. Preaching Institute, Dr. Mike Pasquarello, and our colleague Dr. Taeshaun Gardner, the Director of Samford’s Pre Ministerial Scholars program, and a professor at Howard College of Arts and Sciences here at Samford University. All three of these folks have joined us here on the podcast to talk about a wonderful new $1.2 million grant Samford has received from the Lily Endowment to fund a new preaching initiative here on campus. Thank you, gentleman, for being with us, and welcome guests to the Beeson Podcast. Why don’t we begin by introducing our listeners to this new program, The Spirit & Power project? I wonder if we can go around the room and maybe start with Dr. Fuller, since he’s been our leader in the securing of this grant, by asking him to introduce us to The Spirit & Power project. And then we’ll ask Dr. Pasquarello and Dr. Gardner to chime in as well. >>Fuller: All right. Well, The Spirit & Power project aims to equip both aspiring and active preachers. So, students preparing for vocational preaching ministries as well as those already in preaching roles in their churches – that they might proclaim the gospel more faithfully and more wisely to diverse audiences recognizing the challenges that does present to many preachers today. All of this with the ultimate goal that they would do that to the glory of God and for the building up of the church of Jesus Christ. So, that’s the broad purpose of what we’re doing. The various objectives of the program are first that we would offer a number of enriching kinds of services through this project to augment the instruction and training that students here at Samford both undergrad and graduate alike are getting for preaching ministries. Secondly, that we would engage those in current preaching ministries with programs and services that will help to enrich them spiritually recognizing that their preaching ministries are just as much a matter of their spiritual vitality as it is of their preaching skills. And to help them in so many of those aspects of the work of preaching that they might improve in ways and be encouraged in their preaching through what we do. Lastly, that we would exhibit and celebrate exemplary preaching and preachers; through conferences, through events, and through a fellows program and other means to really try to raise the profile of those who are preaching in compelling ways. This is part of Lily’s Compelling Preaching Initiative, which we are one of many institutions who have received grants as a part of that. So, we want to celebrate where there are those who by the Lord’s grace are preaching in compelling ways to diverse audiences today and help hold them up as models for aspiring and active preachers alike. >>Doug Sweeney: Fantastic. We’ve already suggested ... we’ll get into this in detail in a few minutes, but this is going to be a blessing not only to the people who are usually blessed through the ministries of Beeson Divinity School but through the ministries of undergraduate professors and others as well. It’s going to be run through the Preaching Institute of Beeson Divinity School but include lots of other folks as well. Maybe we can begin, Dr. Fuller and Dr. Pasquarello, by explaining to our listeners how Beeson Divinity School folks will be blessed by this, first of all. Are we aiming at developing programs for preachers in the area, for Beeson students, for both? How are we going to be serving folks with this program? >>Fuller: We’ll do both. We aim to do both. We have on the student side of things, again, both for undergrad students and for students here at Beeson Divinity School a number of things, including some preaching lunch and learn sessions that we’ll do on a regular basis. We already have in place and have had for many, many years at Samford the Samford Sunday program where students have the opportunity to go out into Baptist churches around the state of Alabama on various Sundays across the year and fill pulpits and gain what I know to be personally very valuable preaching experience outside the classroom setting. >>Doug Sweeney: You were one of those preachers back in the day! >>Fuller: I was one of those, yes. Building some services around helping them prepare to go out and have those experiences as well as some opportunity to sit down with them after they had gone out on one or more of these and to offer them feedback and review of their sermons in a way that we think might be helpful. >>Doug Sweeney: Yeah. Those Samford Sundays, that’s mostly ... we’ll get Dr. Gardner in here in a minute since he runs the program ... but that’s mostly undergrad students, every once in a while maybe a seminary student participates. Is that right, Dr. Gardner? >>Gardner: That’s correct. >>Doug Sweeney: All right. And then Dr. Pasquarello, how do you envision this being a blessing to master of divinity students, the seminary students who are getting ready to go out and be preaching pastors of churches? Will there be events for them to attend? Model preachers for them to listen to? What are we aiming at for them? >>Pasquarello: Yes. That’s a good question. And a very important one. There will be events for them to attend and they’ll have opportunities as Dr. Fuller has said to preach and to get feedback on their preaching. And I think an important aspect of this is because the grant is larger and it will entail hiring a full time program coordinator. That will simply increase the amount of exposure that our students will have, not only to good teaching but examples. Preachers who are just exemplars of what we will consider to be compelling preaching. So, I think just the increased interaction between pastors and students will be a major plus going forward. We’ve had some of that already but nonetheless this is an opportunity to increase it in a significant way. As well as giving our students an opportunity, more opportunities to learn by doing while getting good feedback. We’re very committed to that and we have been in the preaching institute, but this grant certainly offers us much more opportunity – and for that we’re pleased. >>Doug Sweeney: Yeah. Dr. Gardner, this would be a good time to ask about how you envision this being useful to the undergrad students as well? As somebody who has been teaching them, leading the Samford Sunday program, what are your hopes for this when it comes to your own students? >>Gardner: Yes, this is an excellent opportunity for us to prepare and empower preachers who are excited about preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ. We hope to increase, number one, our participation in Samford Sunday program. And also to equip and empower those who are already actively engaged in Samford Sunday. Dr. Fuller, I too was a member of Samford Sunday when it was H Day. So, I can remember and recall going out to those Alabama Baptist Associations preaching and being mentored by faithful pastors, carried out to lunch and talking to my peers about their experiences. What I think is unique about this, it helps to supplement the classroom as awesome a job as our homilitians do, Dr. Smith, Dr. Webster, Dr. Pasquarello ... there’s limited time. So, this provides us an opportunity to offer some services, some critiques, some tutoring, some mentoring outside of the classroom, to increase the hunger and desire to preach God’s Word faithfully. >>Doug Sweeney: I’m interested in asking a question that to people the age of the men sitting around this table will sound like a funny question. But I think for young people maybe is an important question. And the question is: So, why is preaching so important? I think a lot of churches these days are de-centering the role that preaching used to play in worship services. Why is a school like Beeson Divinity School, why is a school like Samford University still spending all this time and all this money on building up people who are faithful and effective and fruitful preachers of the Word of God? >>Pasquarello: Well, if I might say in the proposal that we submitted to the Lily Endowment, and Dr. Fuller spelled it out well, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word. And that Beeson Divinity School was founded with a purpose of preparing pastors who can preach, because we’re so committed to the Word of God by which we receive the very life of God through Jesus Christ. And I think that we made that clear in the way the preaching institute has operated so far, that we at Beeson are not at all interested in de-emphasizing preaching for the sake of other kinds of activities, that in fact the ministries of the church flow from the Word and are empowered and guided by the Word. And I think that students who come here believe that is so. And they certainly have an opportunity to grow that way, and this program is a wonderful way in which we can continue to do it. >>Gardner: I agree, Dr. Pasquarello. I think in harmony and agreement with John Calvin that preaching is the centerpiece of the Christian worship. And it ought to remain that way. We do want to strive to continue a culture that prizes faithful proclamation of the Word of God. And I think this grant gives us the opportunity to further bolster our claim that it is through the proclamation of the gospel that men, women, and children are saved. >>Doug Sweeney: Amen. Dr. Pasquarello, this program will be building on the good work that you’ve been engaged in for some time now in the Robert Smith Preaching Institute at Beeson Divinity School. Some of our faithful listeners have heard us talk about the Preaching Institute before, but for those who don’t know much about it yet, could you give us just a little introduction to the ministries of the Preaching Institute itself? >>Pasquarello: I’d be happy to. Time has flown by quite fast, but I began to establish the Preaching Institute in the summer of 2018. When I came to Beeson we already had in place some peer groups. But we began to put in place a program that would serve pastors as well as students, it emphasized learning formation and practice. To be a good and faithful preacher requires being a lifelong learner in prayerful study. It requires devotion, increase in the knowledge and love of God. And also becoming more and more competent in the practice of preaching. So, those are the emphases that have really been the centerpiece for the Preaching Institute. And we provided opportunities for students to learn here on campus what we call text to sermon. Each semester I’ve offered on occasion sessions for what I call extracurricular preaching, where I would invite a pastor to come in and that pastor and I would give students feedback on opportunities to preach beyond the classroom. We’ve offered for pastors a day with a Beeson author. And one of our faculty members would lead a session for a half of a day, we would provide lunch, and pastors would come and that professor would speak out of their research and writing and teaching of the significance for preaching. And then we’ve also collaborated with our endowed lectureships. When a speaker comes for our endowed lectures, both in the spring and the fall, in most cases I will invite that speaker to also offer a preaching institute event. In which they draw out implications of the content of the lectures. So, just a few weeks ago Dr. Carl Truman was here. He did a preaching institute event for us Wednesday after his lecture. And he spoke about a theology of preaching in the Reformation. It was a powerful presentation on the Word and the Reformation as the prophetic Word being recovered and let loose in a great way. So, these are some of the things that we have done. And I think that now this new initiative will provide the resources to go far beyond it and I will be very pleased to see that happen. >>Doug Sweeney: Dr. Gardner, I’d be remiss if I didn’t say this program is also going to be building on the long-standing work of the pre-ministerial scholars program at the undergrad level at Samford. What should our listeners know about it? How should they be praying for it as they pray for the next generation of faithful preachers? >>Dr. Gardner: Yes. Pray that we can further equip those who on the undergraduate level go out periodically each semester, spring and fall, to preach the gospel in association churches around Birmingham and surrounding counties. We also ask that you pray that as our students engage in some of the workshops, conferences, that they’ll become more faithful proclaimers of God’s Word. We really want to see the students on the undergraduate level, those who are in the pre-ministerial scholars program, those who are in Samford Sunday participate more in terms of feedback sessions, participating in the lunch and learns, having faithful pastors and professors to give them feedback and critique of their sermons. And to help them develop those sermons that they will be preaching on those Sundays that they go out on the Samford Sunday program. >>Doug Sweeney: All right. So, if our listeners want to find out more either about the work of the Preaching Institute or about the new preaching imitative, or the pre-ministerial scholars program ... how can they tune in? Is there a web page to look at? How can they learn more and get connected? Maybe Dr. Fuller, we can start with you? >>Fuller: Well, there will be a dedicated web page for the Spirit & Power project. It is under construction now. There are existing web pages of course already for the preaching institute that outlines many of the things that Dr. Pasquarello has already mentioned and have been going on for some time there. As well as the pre-ministerial scholars program both on the Samford website and Beeson Divinity website. So, we’ll have all of the kind of information people will need and want to find out on those sites. And for those particularly who are off campus and involved in pastoral ministries, preaching ministries now and how this project will offer opportunities for growth to them, there will be information there about the new round of preaching peer groups that we will be starting that’s shown itself to be a proven and reliable method for enhancing the preaching ministries of these folks in the past. And we’re continuing that through this. We’re developing a preaching development cohort, annually, that 10-12 preaching pastors will have an opportunity to join in and it will meet four times during the year for a day each time as they adopt a particular focus for their study across the year. There will be funding for retreats that pastors wishing to get some time away to work on sermon planning for the year or to focus on various things related to their preaching ministries – all of the information about those things and others will be on the website, as it is developed. >>Doug Sweeney: Fantastic. Dr. Pasquarello, if people want to find out what’s going on at The Preaching Institute, even right now and attend some of the events coming up in the spring, where do they go to find that out? >>Pasquarello: Well, on the Beeson Divinity School website under Centers and Institutes is where our page is and it has all of the information they would want. >>Doug Sweeney: Fantastic. >>Gardner: Likewise, you can go to the Samford University’s webpage, Biblical/Religious Studies Program tab/page and find the Pre-Ministerial Scholars Program. We’ll also be hosting a podcast as well that I want to be intentional about having a graduate school student or undergraduate school student. Those podcasts will be discussing contemporary issues facing preaching. We’re in some very tumultuous times right now. We want to make sure that the preachers that participate in this program are equipped to meet the challenges that face us in our contemporary context. >>Doug Sweeney: Well, all three of you gentleman have been on the podcast before. And you know that we like to end our podcast interviews by edifying our listeners, reflecting just a little bit on what the Lord is doing in our lives these days, what the Lord is teaching us. It occurs to me that given the theme of this particular podcast episode, the question might well be – are you still learning things as a preacher of the Word of God after all these years? I’m here to tell our listeners I know all three of these gentleman well and all four of us are very regularly preaching and teaching in churches in the area. As well as shepherding the next generation of preachers here at the Divinity School and at the undergrad level at Samford. So, when you get up into your 50’s and 60’s and you get a little bit of gray hair and so on, does the Lord still teach you some things as a minister of His Word? And if so, what is he teaching you? Dr. Pasquarello, can we start with you? >>Pasquarello: I’ll be glad to begin. It’s quite humbling, actually. When you’ve preached for many, many years – for me it’s now more than 40 years. And one of things that I learn as I get older is how little I knew when I was younger, even though I thought I knew a lot because I had a master of divinity. And the second thing that I have learned and that I share with students is that the people to whom we preach have stronger faith and more knowledge of God than we give them credit for. One of the things that I see happening in preaching, and I have over a long period of time is this desire to try to dummy things down and make it easy. And we live in a time when people know that to be a disciple of Jesus Christ is not an easy thing. And compelling preaching will actually be preaching that offers a strong challenge in great, great encourage to empower them. And that’s one of the things I’ll just stop there that I have learned as I’ve gotten older and preached more and more. >>Doug Sweeney: How about you, Dr. Fuller? I know you preached just yesterday, so the Lord is still teaching you as a preacher? >>Fuller: Yes. He certainly is. I think the thing that comes to mind first for me is how important it is in preaching that you relate to people pastorally. And I know those are terms we often use in very sort of dichotomous ways, that we pastor people over here and we preach over here ... but I think there is such a thing as preaching in a pastoral fashion. And I guess what I mean by that is the importance of relating to the people you’re preaching to in a very authentic way. Particularly when you’re younger, when you’re under the influence of preachers you’ve sat under and heard for many years, and you form these models in your mind of what you should do in preaching, and those are helpful and they’re important in their own way – not to take away from those models – while at the same time the importance of really being authentic in relating to people as you preach in a way that helps them to see the authenticity, the passion, and sincerity of how the message has touched your life that you’re now conveying to them in the preached Word. I think for all of the other skill and ability, homiletically, that we may have – helpful as those things may be – people want to really hear and know that the person in front of them believes what they’re saying, that it’s coming from a place other than the paper in front of them on the lectern/pulpit and to see/know that it is a Word from the Lord that has been received and is being communicated. >>Doug Sweeney: Dr. Gardner? >>Gardner: I know this may seem veneer, maybe even shallow, but I think it is also profound. Gardner Taylor was asked a question along the lines of reflecting upon a 70-80 year preaching ministry. If there was anything that he could change, anything he regretted. He said that the only thing he would change is that he would pray more and spend more time in the Word. Those two things. And I think this world is hurting for biblical preaching. Not the headlines, not CNN, FOX, not cultural proclivities, but the people who gather on Sunday morning, or any context to hear the Word of God – ultimately, whether they admit it or not, they want to know is there a Word from the Lord? And that only comes by way of spending time in the Word and time before the presence of God in prayer. So, God is teaching me that today. With all the learning, with all the teaching, it starts foundationally ... and we never outgrow ... the Word of God and time in prayer. So, that’s what I want to continue to emphasize to my students, those who will be engaged in this wonderful program. That there is no substitute to spending time in the Word and in prayer. >>Doug Sweeney: Amen. Our listeners, the Lord does continue to use his Word as it is faithfully preached and taught in just the way He tells us He does in scripture. So, may this recording encourage your own faith in that truth. And may God by His grace help us all to act like we believe it, in our churches and in our seminaries. Thank you for tuning in. We love you. And we say goodbye for now. >>Rob Willis: You’ve been listening to the Beeson podcast; coming to you from the campus of Samford University. Our theme music is by Advent Birmingham. Our announcer is Mike Pasquarello. Our engineer is Rob Willis. And our show host is Doug Sweeney. For more episodes and to subscribe, visit www.BeesonDivinity.com/podcast. You can also find the Beeson Podcast on iTunes and Spotify.