Beeson Podcast, Episode #642 Reverend Arthur Price Feb. 21, 2023 >>Announcer: Welcome to the Beeson podcast, coming to you from Beeson Divinity School on the campus of Samford University. Now your hosts, Doug Sweeney and Kristen Padilla. >>Doug Sweeney: Welcome to the Beeson Podcast. I’m your host, Doug Sweeney, here with my co-host, Kristen Padilla. Today’s guest is a friend who pastors the best known church in town. He preached in chapel this morning as part of our African American Ministry Emphasis Month. This is his first time on the show, and we are thrilled to have him with us. Before Kristen introduces him, let me remind you that our fall application deadline is quickly approaching. If you or someone you know is thinking about seminary – drop us line. We would love to get to know you and help you discern the work of God in your life. When you’re ready to check us out or begin an application, go to www.BeesonDivinity.com/admission. All right, Kristen. Who is this distinguished guest in the podcast studio with us today? >>Kristen Padilla: We have with us the Reverend Arthur Price. He is the pastor of 16th Street Baptist Church here in Birmingham. And as Doug said we’re so glad and thrilled that you’re our guest today on the show. >>Price: Thank you for having me. >>Kristen Padilla: Well, we always like to begin by allowing our guests to introduce themselves more fully. I gave a one sentence bio, so I wonder if you can expand on that? Who are you? Where are you from? And a little bit about your faith journey – how you were led to faith in Jesus Christ? >>Price: My name is Arthur Price, born and raised in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania in a quaint village area of the city. I’ve been in Birmingham for 21 years. My faith journey began in a mission church called Light of the World Chapel in Philadelphia. I went there for Vacation Bible School. I went there for Sunday school. And as I learned about the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ I had a very inquisitive mind. And I wanted to know more about Jesus Christ. So, I remember one Wednesday at a bible study I accepted the Lord as my Savior. I got baptized. And I’ve been in Sunday school and I’ve been in church probably since I’ve been about eight or nine years old. I left the Mission church and went to Philip’s Temple Christian Methodist Church in Philadelphia, where I learned to be a Sunday school teacher. God called me to be a Sunday school teacher there. I started out with the primary class and then to youth class. Just some campus ministry work at Temple University when I was in college with Bishop Troy Brunner, who also was very impactful on my ministry. And then I got called to preach the same year I got married ... (laughs) ... in 1990. My pastor, Reverend Charles Walker, of 19th Street Baptist Church licensed me and then later ordained me. I left the Philadelphia’s [inaudible 00:03:21] in ’92 to go to Colgate Rochester Seminary in Rochester, New York. Upon completion of my seminarian degree I came back to Philadelphia, got called to a church in Buffalo, and then from Buffalo I’ve been here for the past 21 years. >>Doug Sweeney: 21 years at one of the best known congregations in the world, really. The historical 16th Street Baptist Church. How did you get that ministry role? How did you get to 16th Street to begin with? >>Price: Truly it was an act of God, as I stated I was pastor in Buffalo for about three and a half years. I was doing ministry there and I was satisfied being in Buffalo. Then I was told that 16th Street Baptist Church was looking for a pastor. So, we applied for the pastorate of 16th Street Baptist Church along with 300 other applications. Never thought that they would call me. So, when they called me to come preach there, I’d never been south. So, I went to preach. Then we made the final three. The church wound up calling another individual to be the pastor. That person turned the pastorate down. And then they made the ask to me and we accepted it, and we came to Birmingham with a bible-centric ministry that wanted to reach the lost, the lonely, and the least of these, rebuild those who were broken, battered, and bruised, and reproduce disciples that are developed and can discern the will of God for themselves. And that’s been our vision since we’ve been here. >>Kristen Padilla: Beautiful. So, from Buffalo to Birmingham. I’m sure there were lots of changes in that move. And it’s wonderful that you’ve been here so long. This September will mark the 60th anniversary of the bombing of your church, which killed four girls. Their names are Addie May Collins, Cynthia Wesley, Carole Robertson, and Denise McNayer. Can you tell our listeners about this event? What led up to it? How it impacted your church then? And how it’s still impacting your church and its ministry today? >>Price: The bombing of 16th Street Baptist Church is probably one of the most un-sung events of the Civil Rights Movement. People remember the Children’s March of 1963. People remember the March on Washington in 1963. But 18 days after the March on Washington, the 16th Street Baptist Church was bombed in response to Dr. Martin Luther King’s, “I Have A Dream” speech. Now, Dr. King came to Birmingham in April of ’63 by the request of Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth and their objective was to de-segregate the parks and the schools in Birmingham. When Dr. King came to Birmingham he was met with very little fanfare. They tried the sit-in approach with some lunch counters, didn’t garner a whole lot of attention. On Good Friday, he, Dr. Shuttlesworth, and Ralph Abernathy had a march and they were arrested. And King writes his letter from the Birmingham jail there. But while he’s in jail in Birmingham, his lieutenants, Andrew Young and some others, had the idea of getting the children involved in the movement. They wanted to get the prom kings and the prom queens, the football players, the cheerleaders. They wanted to get them involved in the movement because many of the adults were apprehensive about joining the movements because it meant that they would lose their jobs. They were threatened that their jobs would be at stake if they were caught in the movement. So, the children wanted to get involved in the movement and they came to the church, the church became the staging ground where they would learn nonviolent tactics on how to do two things, or the objective of Dr. King was twofold once he got on board with the children being involved. The objective was, one, to fill up the jails in Birmingham. And two, to get what was going on in Birmingham on this new venture called television. Because in 1963 – no Snapchat, no Twitter, no Instagram, no Facebook. So, he wanted to let the world know that there were two America’s. Fill up the jails. Get it on TV. Once it got on TV and President Kennedy saw the images coming out of Birmingham, the dogs, the hoses, the billy clubs ... President Kennedy, who was apprehensive about Civil Rights, had to do something. Sent his brothers down, they brokered a deal, and Dr. King’s emboldened to do the March on Washington. It was 18 days after Dr. King marched on Washington, 18 days after he said he had a dream, 18 days after he said he wanted his children not to be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character, the response in Birmingham was to bomb the 16th Street Baptist Church because that was seen as the place of agitation. So, they wanted to bomb the church to kind of de-rail the movement. On September 15th, 1963 it was youth Sunday. It was children’s day. And the youth were going to lead in the worship. They would lead the singing, the praying, the scripture reading. They were going to lead the worship. So, the bomb went off at 10:22 during the Sunday school hour. Five girls were in the bathroom getting ready to sing in the choir. Addie May Collins, Denise McNayer, Cynthia Wesley, Carole Robertson, and Sarah Collins also was in the bathroom. And at 10:22 a bomb goes off. And four to five girls lost their lives. The youngest, Denise McNayer was eleven. The other three were 14. There was a rock lodged in their head when the bomb went off. Another of the four little girls’ head was decapitated. So, you can imagine the chaos, the pandemonium, the bedlam that was going on. Because the church was bombed and these lives were lost. Because it caused White Birmingham to take introspection. And the introspection was we may have been against the racists congregating together, we may have been against the racists going to school together, but we didn’t sign up for murder or terrorism, which that was. So, there was anger in the streets. But the good news is, is that those leaders turned their anger at the advocacy. They galvanized the generation. They motivated a movement. And they made sure that the four girls’ deaths were not going to be in vain. So, they kept on advocating till they got the Civil Rights Act passed. They kept on advocating till they got the Voting Rights Act passed, which is the teeth of the Civil Rights Act. And change came about. How that still impacts us today? On a daily basis, a weekly basis, monthly basis, yearly basis. We get tens of thousands of people that make a pilgrimage to Birmingham to see the place where the children’s march emanated from and to pay their respects to the four little girls who lost their lives for that movement. To make the bitter days of Birmingham so much better. >>Doug Sweeney: That’s got to make your job as pastor pretty exceptional. You have a pastorate that’s not a typical pastorate. A lot of pastors are asked to play civic leadership roles, but if you’re the pastor of 16th Street Baptist Church, I mean, that’s a really high expectation, I would imagine. You’re right across the street from the Civil Rights Institute. You’re right across the street from Kelly Ingram Park, which memorializes the Civil Rights Movement in Birmingham. What’s that part of your ministry like? Not many pastors, not many potential student, seminary students listening to this have an easy time imagining what it would be like to be a regular pastor of a real congregation – but play this leadership role in the city as well. How does that go for you? And how have you enjoyed that over the couple of decades you’ve been here? >>Price: It has it’s challenges, but again I’m a person that kind of accepts challenges. So, when I got here, 16th Street Baptist Church was known for being a museum versus being an actual ministry. When you mentioned 16th Street Baptist Church, people thought that it was an extension of the Civil Rights Institute. That it was just this place that was stuck in history. When we got here, we wanted to make sure that the church was not just a museum but people know it for actual ministry. My challenge to the church was that bars are known for drinking, hospitals are known for sick folks, clubs are known for dancing, what do we want to be known for? And our mission that comes out of our vision is we want to be known for exalting the Savior, evangelizing the sinner, equipping the saints, educating the society. So, through the education of the society piece, we decided to have a tour ministry that would speak to the needs of the tens of thousands of people who want to experience history. And we said, “We welcome you to experience history, but while you experience history we’re going to tell you about His story.” And “his” is God and “story” is of the grace, mercy, and love of Jesus Christ. So, we have retired educators who diligently tell the story, which I just laid out about 16th Street’s involvement in the Civil Rights Movement. But they also talk about the church’s role in society today. And that the reason why the church still stands is because of that grace, mercy, and love of Jesus Christ. And that we have an obligation to tell this story in the context of history. So, we get tens of thousands of people knocking on the door and they come expecting one thing and we give them something else. We give them what they want and we give them a little bit more. So, we’ve been able to juxtapose the museum piece and the ministry piece. So, we view our tour, the tourism not as a museum but we call it the tour ministry. And we get to talk to people from around the country. We get to talk to people from around the globe. And we get to share the gospel of Jesus Christ. And I’ll finish with this – when we look at this piece of the museum versus the ministry, we compare it to John 4 when Jesus met the woman at the well. The well was the conversation starter. The museum or the history piece is the conversation starter. I’m able to start a conversation with you about what happened 60 years ago, but now after that conversation I’m able to tell you why we’re able to stand the test of time. And that’s through the love, mercy, and grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. >>Kristen Padilla: Well, listener, if you go to their website you will see in big bold letter, “Where Jesus Christ is the main attraction,” which is really beautiful. As you were saying, some people may go there to think that Civil Rights are the main attraction at your church, but really it’s Jesus. And I love this vision of we’re not a museum, we have the gospel story of Jesus Christ and we’re going to use this history as a way to tell you about Jesus. So, that’s beautiful. As Doug mentioned at the beginning, this is African American Ministry Emphasis Month, which we do in conjunction with Black History Month. And you’ve mentioned a few names already in the show of people that you’ve worked with or who influenced you. But I wonder if you can tell our listeners more names or about these people who have been such an influence on you in your ministry, your preaching ministry? Who are some of the African American pastors and preachers we should know about? >>Price: I’ll start with my Sunday school teacher, Ethel Waters, who really challenged me to be a student of the bible. Then I’ll go to Bishop Troy Brunner who I met at Temple University doing student ministry, who wanted me to go deeper in the bible. I’ll mention my pastor, Reverend Charles Walker, who modeled what a preacher is and how to attack the text. And I’ll mention Reverend Raymond M. Gordon, one of my mentors and my pastor today, who modeled to me what a pastor ought to be and how to form ministry. Those have been key influences in my lie. Then Dr. Carter Taylor’s preaching has influenced, impacted my life. Dr. Martin Luther King’s dedication has impacted my life. But those individuals that I’ve met up close and personal really had an impact on my ministry and my life. >>Doug Sweeney: We’re hoping our listeners are going to go and check out the wonderful sermon your preached in chapel this morning. It was on Matthew 13 and the title is, “When There Are Weeds in the Wheat.” Listeners, it was a powerful sermon that would be time very well spent for you to go check out on our YouTube page, Pastor Price’s sermon. And just to persuade him to go to the trouble of checking it out on YouTube, can we give them just a little sneak peak? What was your message today in Hodges Chapel? >>Price: Well, the message today was one of the parables of Jesus. I think you all are dealing with the parables of Jesus this month. And wanted to let people know that parables was one of the prominent forms of Jesus’ teaching that Jesus really taught a lot through parables so that people can know ... so he can clear up some misconceptions about his teaching and so that he can know who is really hanging around him and who is really following him. So, this particular parable about the weeds and the wheat is one of six parables that’s nestled in Matthew 13. Matthew 13 is all about parables. It talks about the parable of the sower, the seed, it talks about the parable of the wheat and the tares, it talks about the mustard seed, talks about the yeast, talks about the fishnet, the priceless pearl. So, Matthew 13 deals with parables. But the two parables that he explains is the one about the sowing the seed and the wheat and the weeds. And the wheat’s and the weeds lets us know that we’ve wrestled with this idea of, or this issue of the odyssey. And we ask that question of why does bad things happen to good people? Because the sower sows good seeds, but the good seed also in that field with some wheat. So, instead of the servants wondering who put the weeds there, they wanted to imply that the seed must not have been as good as it was. And there’s times when we don’t think that when God sows good seed in our lives and we start to see some tares that God is not as good to us as we thought he should be to us. So, what I wanted to convey was that when we find weeds in our wheat that we have an encounter with a real enemy. That sometimes there’s some servants who are sleeping, but there’s going to be a hearty harvest at the end. And once you realize that God has placed you in the midst of an evil field, that we got seed on the inside that’s going to sprout up and cause some good to happen in spite of the weeds that are around us. >>Kristen Padilla: Well, it was a wonderful sermon, as Doug has already said. And we encourage you to go to our YouTube channel at Beeson Divinity where you can watch his sermon. As we close today, as we always do with these podcast interviews, we want to ask you if there’s anything that the Lord has been teaching you recently that you could share with us as a word of encouragement to our listeners? >>Price: The Lord has been teaching me about legacy, about leaving something behind for others to build on. My whole goal in ministry is to be a faithful steward of what the Lord has given me and to leave what he has given me better than when I found it. So, I’m really on this thing about legacy. Not legacy for Arthur Price but legacy for Jesus Christ. How do we leave the field that God has given us better for generations that come behind us? And I’m at a point in my life right now where I’m trying to process that and think of ways, how we can come alongside to make this ministry better for those that come behind us? >>Doug Sweeney: That’s a wonderful way to conclude this episode. We want to thank you, Pastor Price, for being with us today. We want to thank you, listeners, for tuning in. As we said at the top of the show, you have been listening to the Reverend Arthur Price, Senior Pastor of the 16th Street Baptist Church here in Birmingham, Alabama. We love you and we say goodbye for now. >>Kristen Padilla: You’ve been listening to the Beeson podcast. Our theme music is written and performed by Advent Birmingham of the Cathedral Church of the Advent in Birmingham, Alabama. Our engineer is Rob Willis. Our announcer is Mike Pasquarello. Our co-hosts are Doug Sweeney and, myself, Kristen Padilla. Please subscribe to the Beeson podcast at www.BeesonDivinity.com/podcast or on iTunes.