Beeson Podcast, Episode #
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>>Announcer: 

Welcome to the Beeson podcast, coming to you from Beeson Divinity School on the campus of Samford University. Now your host, Doug Sweeney. 


>>Doug Sweeney:

Welcome to the Beeson podcast. I'm your host, Doug Sweeney, and I am here today with Beeson student Caroline Bass, a friend of mine, a former TA of mine, one of Beeson's best and brightest. We want to ask her all about how she got here to Beeson. She spent an exciting time in Israel over the summer with a college tour group. We want to ask her about that. She's deeply invested in Jewish-Christian relations. We'll ask her a question or two about that. Caroline, thank you very much for being with us today.
>>Bass:
Thank you for having me.
>>Sweeney:
All right, so let's start by introducing you to our listeners. Lots of them probably know about you already because you are no stranger to Samford or Beeson or Birmingham and its churches. But tell us a little bit about your childhood and how you got to Beeson Divinity School. 
>>Bass:
I grew up here in Birmingham. My dad is a professor and undergrad at Samford, so I also grew up on campus and came here for college, studied history, and then I ended up at Beeson through a crazy turn of events in my life. I didn't expect to do that as I was graduating college, but the Lord changed my direction my senior year. I felt like He was calling me to come receive additional training on ministry and on scripture, and that I needed to do it here at Beeson. 
So the final way that push kind of came for me was actually through a final trip to Israel that I was taking my senior year of college. It was last minute but the group that I go to Israel with, it's called Passages Israel, we take Christian college students. They last minute needed an extra leader, and I went, and while I was there, I really felt this calling to Jewish-Christian relations in particular, and for fighting against anti-Semitism.
>>Sweeney:
All right, well, that's a great segue into the next question I wanted to ask you about. It's this exciting summer you had. People my age who have children your age think to themselves, why would she go to Israel this summer? It was such a dangerous place to be. But you're a courageous servant of the Lord. How did you get to Israel? Why did you go this summer? And what were you doing there? 
>>Bass:
So my first semester at Beeson was fall of 2023 and about a month into my seminary experience, October 7th happened, which is when Hamas invaded Israel, killed over 1,200 people in their homes, in their communities, and were merciless in who they were killing. They don't view the Jewish people as people at all, and so there was no mercy shown. Children were murdered. Women were murdered. The types of violence are the worst kinds that this earth has seen and that can possibly be experienced. 
And I remember that morning because my sister, who has also been to Israel several times, woke me up on that Saturday morning, it happened during Shabbat, and told me that Israel had been attacked and we wept together before we even knew the full extent of what had happened. But after that, some other people who are in the Jewish-Christian relations space were encouraging people to visit their local Jewish communities and deliver them flowers because this wasn't just something that impacted Israelis. It brought up a lot of fears for the Jewish people as a whole when they think about persecution. 
And so that's what I did. I took some white roses to the Jewish community here in Birmingham and was expecting to deliver to one group but actually met some women in a parking lot and they took the flowers to our local Jewish community center and they connected me with a Jewish friend who wanted to do some work with Christians in the area and so I ended up speaking to churches with him about what was going on in Israel and why Christians should care beyond just a surface level caring about war. 
So that's kind of the segue into why I ended up in Israel. This summer, two years later, I was asked to lead a group again with Passages. They're taking some Christian college students back to Israel. This time, the focus is not just on growing in biblical knowledge and getting to see the land of Israel, which they still do. It's an incredible experience for young Christians to get to have. It really brings the Bible to life. But it's also to bear witness to what's happening and what happened on October 7th in particular and what is continuing to happen, why we should also care about the Palestinian people. So I feel like it was an important time for me to go because it is a time of hurting and pain.
>>Sweeney:
Were you frightened at all about the prospect of going? It's kind of a scary time to be in Israel.
>>Bass:
I was not really. I love being there and I love the people and I knew that the Lord was asking me to go, so I was mostly just really looking forward to going.
>>Sweeney:
Yeah. What kinds of things did you learn while you were there this summer with that group? Were there educational offerings or it's mostly travel and see sites that were part of the land of the Bible or what?
>>Bass:
There are some educational offerings too. My trip was supposed to be the first part, two weeks with these Christian college students, and then I was going to stay the rest of the summer and take a graduate level course in Jerusalem. That part did not pan out given the events that followed, but those first, the full Passages Christian College tour group happened. And so we traveled throughout Israel, we had lots of educational speakers. I think I was most impacted by getting to know some of the people who are with me. My tour guide, her name is Karin, she was just an incredible encouragement to me both during that time.
>>Sweeney:
Is she an American or an Israeli?
>>Bass:
She's an Israeli, but her mother is a native English speaker, so she speaks English perfectly. And is one of the best tour guides I've ever had. So she was really just gifted and sharing what has been happening in Israel and the depths and the history behind it. But getting to know her was really impactful as well as some of the other Israelis that I was working with and hearing their stories about what happened on October 7th and where they were. And it brings home the fact that this isn't just something happening in a faraway place. These are real people and they're real people who are hurting.
>>Sweeney:
Yeah, and you experienced that firsthand as I recall, because there were parts of Israel at least that suffered some bombings while you were there. Is that right?
>>Bass:
Yes, so my Passages group, our tour ended on a Thursday afternoon and they made it out of the country. I was picked up by a dear friend of mine, a Jewish friend, and she brought me to stay with her family. I was going to stay with her for a few nights. They live about 30 minutes north of Tel Aviv. And then I was going to start my class that Monday. And instead we had dinner together. I got to meet her sister. And about 3 a.m. Iran bombed Israel for the first time. We had known before we went to sleep that Israel had attacked Iran and that there was going to be repercussions to that. And so that was my first experience of really hearing a siren. 
I had heard one actually the week before; there was a minor incident with Hezbollah, which is pretty standard in Israel to hear sirens from Hezbollah or the Houthis sending missiles over, but that one was intercepted and that was in my hotel in Jerusalem with Passages then. But this first night, I think the only comparison that us in Southern America can understand is like the worst possible day for tornadoes for us. It's the hearing the alarm go off on your phone from your weather app or the siren outside and going downstairs and sheltering and waiting for things to pass over, except it's the kind of day where when you get out, you realize how many people have had their homes and their lives destroyed.
So that first siren rolled through and I was in a bomb shelter with my friend and her family. I am incredibly grateful for them and their hospitality still, because if I hadn't been with them, I would have been alone in a hotel room in Tel Aviv. So I was grateful for the way that they displayed courage and resilience as Israelis who have walked through this so many times in their lives. It was one of those moments where I was really faced with what I believe and why, because in getting to know some of my Jewish friends over those two weeks, people have questions about my faith and why I come to Israel.
And sharing that I believe in Jesus Christ, that He suffered on the cross for our sins, that He died, overcame our sins and gives us life. And that's not a life that is lived in fear. So do I really believe in this God? Or am I afraid in this moment? And the Lord pulled through for me every single time. I really didn't experience a whole lot of physical fear on any level. I think that first night my body definitely reacted to the stress level of being woken up repeatedly.
>>Sweeney:
Adrenaline pumping and that kind of thing.
>>Bass:
Definitely adrenaline. And I'm grateful for the experience of understanding what life is like for my Israeli friends and my Palestinian friends who are Palestinian Christians and Israel. It is hard to listen to bombs explode over your head and you're sheltering in there with your family or your friends and especially those who live in that Tel Aviv area. It feels a lot more intense for them. There were a lot of people who lost their lives and just regular civilians in their homes.
>>Sweeney:
While we have our audience listening to you talk about your summer, why don't we have you just tell us a little bit more about kind of where we are now in Jewish-Christian relations and what an audience like ours connected to Beeson and Samford really ought to hear and bear in mind as we think about our friends in Israel and what they're going through these days. 
>>Bass:
It's obviously a really complicated conflict. And if we look at this conflict and think for a second that it is straightforward and we know better because we're Americans or we can just see the picture better from the outside. That's just not remotely true. It's important for us to understand as Christians, when we're walking into this conversation first, that the church has been the largest persecutor of the Jewish people throughout history. And that is not a tradition or a piece of history that we can shrug off. And we can't as Protestants either say, “Oh, that was just the Catholic church,” because it's really not true. And it's also still part of our history is the loss of life and the murder and persecution of millions of Jewish people has been done at the hands of people claiming to be Christians. And some of that is very recent history for us.
I eventually ended up in Jerusalem during this trip and was in a bomb shelter with a lot of Jewish people, but a family in particular really welcomed me in and took care of me. And they're a deeply religious Orthodox family. The mother of him is a Holocaust survivor. So I was sitting in a bomb shelter with someone who survived the Holocaust and just really faced with the picture of what life is like for the Jewish people and that this is very real for them. 
So when we walk into this conversation as Christians, we have to bear in mind that this isn't just a political issue. We have responsibility as Christians to care for the Jewish people and to stand up for them. This does not mean that you hate the Palestinians or that you want people in Gaza to die. I don't want any of those things. I don't know a single of my Israeli friends who would ever desire those things. You certainly read news stories about extremists, but we certainly have our own in America as well who are radical extremists who say crazy things, but by and large Israelis don't want war either and they want to live in peace. 
It's really important that we remember that as Christians walking this conversation that it's not an either/or we can love both the people in Gaza who are suffering and Palestinians who are suffering right now and the Jewish people who are suffering not just in Israel but in the entire world. We've watched an increase in violence and antisemitism here in the US. 
Just in May, there was a shooting in DC and two embassy workers were killed because they were Jewish. One of whom was very clearly a believer in Christ also. So it's just something for us to consider and think about is this isn't something that has no impact. If we allow this kind of rhetoric in our churches or in conversations with our friends, it's kind of rhetoric that kills.
>>Sweeney:
Well, Caroline, thank you very much for your service this summer. As we wrap things up in this podcast interview, let's tell our listeners just a little bit more about you. Is your work in Jewish-Christian relations and work in Israel and so on going to continue as far as you can tell in the years to come? I know you're graduating from Beeson Divinity School this spring, in April. As you imagine what God has for you post-graduation, what are you thinking about and how can our listeners be praying for you?
>>Bass:
I definitely want to continue my work in Jewish-Christian relations. We'll see what doors the Lord opens in that regard. I have a heart for Israel and continuing to advocate for her people who are suffering both in Israel and in the U.S. and I hope that other Christians will stand alongside of me and pray for Israel, pray for the Jewish people, and speak out against it when they are asked to. 
>>Sweeney:
All right, friends, you've been listening to Caroline Bass, a student here at Beeson Divinity School in her final year. She'll graduate in April. She is deeply invested in Jewish-Christian relations. She had a fascinating and, at least for her parents, a frightening summer in Israel just this year. Please continue to pray for her as she follows God's leading into the future. We love you. We're praying for you as well, and we say goodbye for now.

>>Mark Gignilliat:

You’ve been listening to the Beeson podcast; coming to you from the campus of Samford University. Our theme music is by Advent Birmingham. Our announcer is Mark Gignilliat. Our engineer is Rob Willis. Our Producer is Neal Embry. And our show host is Doug Sweeney. For more episodes and to subscribe, visit www.BeesonDivinity.com/podcast. You can also find the Beeson Podcast on iTunes, YouTube, and Spotify.