Beeson Podcast, Episode #758 Name Date >>Announcer: Welcome to the Beeson podcast, coming to you from Beeson Divinity School on the campus of Samford University. Now your host, Doug Sweeney. >>Doug Sweeney: Welcome to the Beeson Podcast. I'm your host, Doug Sweeney, and I'm joined today by Dr. Reginald Calvert, a two -time Beeson graduate, the pastor of New Jerusalem Missionary Baptist Church here in Bessemer, Alabama, and now a lecturer in preaching here at Beeson as well. We want to ask him about his passion for and teaching of preaching here. So, thank you, Dr. Calvert, for being with us. >>Calvert: Thank you for having me. Thank you. >>Doug Sweeney: Lots of people listening to us now already know you. You've been a pastor in town and a presence at Beeson for many, many years. But just for those who don't know you yet, let's introduce you. Can you tell us a little bit about how you came to faith in Jesus, and then how you figured out and when you figured out the Lord was calling you to preaching ministry? >>Calvert: Yes. I came to faith in Jesus when I was a young boy. Actually, I confessed to Christ at the age of 11. My father was a deacon at Shiloh Baptist Church in Brighton, and he was actually the chairman of deacons, and he was the Sunday school superintendent. He had a few rules in the house. As children, if you lived in his house, you had to go to church and you had to go to school. >>Doug Sweeney: He sounds like a good father to me. >>Calvert: Yes. And as an adult, you had to go to church, you had to have a job, and you had to work towards getting out of the house and being on your own. So actually, I was led to faith through the life of my father, who would take time to sit in the living room. He would study the Bible. And during the week, he would canvass the community, seeking kids who were not in Christ, asking parents and grandparents, if he could carry them to church or to VBS, that they may hear the gospel. So, it happened in my life as a young man. >>Doug Sweeney: Wonderful. And then in your teenage years, how'd that go? I mean, did you have a pastor or your dad or somebody say, I see a gift in you, maybe you're called to pastoral ministry or how did you discern it? >>Calvert: Yes. Other people saw this call on my life. And I would seclude myself, read the Bible for hours and hours. I was very committed to the church at that time. I would study preachers that would visit our church and preach. I would come home as a boy and re-preach what was preached on that Sunday morning. Yes, and my mom had to be my audience. She was a nurse at University Hospital, and she would iron her uniforms every Sunday evening once we got out of church. And while she was ironing, I would come in and I would imitate the preacher, and I would have to re -preach the message. >>Doug Sweeney: That's great. >>Calvert: So, members of the church saw that as well as some people in the family. >>Doug Sweeney: Okay. And that by itself maybe wasn't all the way toward feeling that you're called to ministry. When did you first start actually practicing ministry and practicing ministry in a sense where you're feeling like, yes, this is what the Lord has for me, I need to commit myself to it? >>Calvert: Well, you know, it's sort of like Jesus, I took the long way around, you know, as he came down through 42 generations, I took the long way around. I tried to get out of preaching. Being an introvert, I didn't want to stand in the presence of people. So, I tried to serve as an usher in the church. I asked the Lord if I could be a Sunday school teacher and let that suffice. And ultimately, he said, no. And I ended up having this experience and encounter with Christ where I finally submitted to his will in 1996, actually August 16th, 1996. >>Doug Sweeney: Wow. That's a fascinating thing. And it might be actually helpful to people listening to us now who are wondering whether the Lord wants them to move into pastoral ministry and are full of doubts about their own gifts, their own abilities, and so on. So, you're a kid who goes home Sunday night and imitates the preacher you had just heard in front of your mom. >>Calvert: Yes. >>Doug Sweeney: But there's a world of difference, at least at that point in your life, between doing that and actually standing before a congregation and proclaiming God's word. And it was mostly just shyness, introversion, that kind of thing. >>Calvert: Yes. Yes. >>Doug Sweeney: How'd the Lord get you over that? >>Calvert: Well, you know, certain things that happened in my life, I knew at that point I was no longer in control. I always wanted to be in control of things. I felt that I could map out my own destination and reach it through my own personal worldly wisdom. And I found that not to be so. So ultimately it, you know, I got to the point, I could not resist the call any longer because, you know, there's a saying that if you pick preaching up, you can put preaching down, but if preaching picks you up, you can't put it down. And so ultimately, you know, I found myself, you know, making a confession that I've been called to preach, and I will spend the rest of my life dedicated to the preaching ministry. And that, you know, took place in 1996. >>Doug Sweeney: Wow. That's great. >>Calvert: Yeah. >>Doug Sweeney: I, too, am an introvert more than I am an extrovert. And I know that even though no matter where you fall on that spectrum or other aspects of personality, you can grow, you can work through some of your weaknesses over time. And if you're involved in preaching, teaching, leadership, ministry, and you're introverted, that's just something you have to get used to, being an introvert who kind of operates in an extroverted way a fair bit of time. But even when you do, unless you're pretty unusual, you're not somebody who's reinvented your personality. Like, deep down, you're still the man God made you to be. So, what's it like after all these years preaching? Do you still feel like, you know, I'm kind of an introvert who's just obeying the Lord here, getting in the pulpit, doing what he's telling me to do, but I still don't feel like much of an extrovert when I do it? >>Calvert: That is true. I do what I feel I have to do. And then once I'm done, I really need to seclude myself with this quiet, private time because it's wearing me out. So, if you see me in a hallway and I greet you and I'm smiling, I really mean it. It is very sincere. At church, I, you know, 20, almost 27 years later, I walk in as though it is my first time seeing the people. Hug, greet, fellowship with the people. And by the end of the day, I'm at a place now where I'm spent and that's it. I have nothing else left until I go into seclusion, refuel, and prepare myself for my next interaction. Yes. >>Doug Sweeney: I'm the same way. I think that's textbook. right? I mean, that's what the experts tell you. If you're an introvert, that's kind of how you're wired. It doesn't mean you can't. I mean, my goodness, you're one of my favorite preachers in the world. So obviously the Lord has gifted you for it and enables you to do it, even though you're an introvert. Yeah, I can imagine how after preaching, especially on a long Sunday, you're preaching in the morning, you preach in the evening, a lot of social in between, you get home at the end of that night, and you crash a little bit. >>Calvert: I do. I do. Certainly love what I do though, so preaching for me is a great joy. You know, it's a burdensome joy, but it's a tremendous joy. >>Doug Sweeney: Well, and your listeners can tell as you preach. >>Calvert: Well, I don't know. I don't know what's happening out there. I just know what's happening within, you know. They have to tell me about it. >>Doug Sweeney: All right. Well, I'm here to tell you, as someone who loves to listen to you preach, that's true. >>Calvert: Oh my, well, God be praised. >>Doug Sweeney: All right. So, let's fast-forward just a little bit. >>Calvert: Yes, yes. >>Doug Sweeney: Why'd you come to Beeson Divinity School? How'd that go for you? >>Calvert: Yeah. God's providential will. I did not know for sure that I would attend Beeson. And my wife and I were talking about divinity schools and my theological training beyond my bachelor's degree, undergrad training. And I tossed the idea out of several schools. But, you know, we talked about Beeson and I had not given it a lot of thought. And when the conversation came up, we went and maybe investigated a bit. And we determined by the will of God that Beeson was the place for me. We did so in the parking lot of Beeson. We drove out and we were on the parking lot. And the wife said, “You know, this is a great school.” I said, “You’re right, I've heard nothing but good things about Beeson.” And it was at that time and at that moment that I made the decision that Beeson would be my choice. And God confirmed that decision through my applying to Beeson, in the way that entire process went. It was really, where it was difficult for many, it was fairly easy, in a sense. The way God brought me into Beeson, I knew that this is the place where I belong. >>Doug Sweeney: Had you had any friends who'd gone to Beeson, or were you the first one in your social network who came? >>Calvert: Yeah, okay. So certainly, as I attended the Birmingham Easonian Baptist Bible College, we had an instructor there who was a Beeson grad, and he may have come out of the first graduating class, I'm not certain. Had heard a lot about Beeson, heard how rigorous the program is, and all of that. So, you know, we had to think and pray over whether or not we wanted to go to the backside of the desert for three or four years to study and be prepared for the ministry. But just glowing reports of Beeson Divinity School and its reputation, just impeccable. >>Doug Sweeney: While you were a student here, were you also preaching on Sundays? >>Calvert: Yes, I was called to pastor Jerusalem in 1999, interim pastor, March of 99, pastor since December of 99. I started at Beeson June of 2001. >>Doug Sweeney: Okay. >>Calvert: Yes. Graduated Easonian Baptist Bible College in May. Started Greek in June of 2001. >>Doug Sweeney: So, you were a busy man for a stretch there. >>Calvert: Yes. Pastoring, preaching every Sunday, doing two Bible studies a week, visiting the sick, and giving, at that time, Sunday school reviews where we reviewed a lesson. And don't know how I made it except by the grace of God. >>Doug Sweeney: So, it doesn't take much of an imagination to imagine you were tired a lot during that time. that stretch. So, there's clearly a burden in being that much of a churchman, that active as a pastor while you're going through seminary. Looking back on it, taking that for granted, is there also something that you thought was very positive about sort of being in the trenches of ministry while you were going through your seminary degree? >>Calvert: Yes. I think that is what ministry is like. I don't think you have one side or the other. I think it's both. And for me, Beeson's was a type of safe haven where I would leave the church, and I'd come out here and have time for ministry reflection. I would be refreshed in the classroom with the fellowship of other students. It really helped. It was very positive. And then it enabled me to go back and to the vineyard and labor and enjoy both. So, I did love doing both, although it was challenging, but certain ways God had prepared me. >>Doug Sweeney: Well, and I guess you loved it so much that somehow the Lord brought you back again years later to do your doctorate at Beeson, even while you were still pastoring. >>Calvert: Well, that's true. In between the M-Div and the D-Min, we built a life center. And actually, you know, we went back to square one, where should I go for my doctoral work? And, you know, some of the faculty said, come back and be with us. And I said, yeah, I think that's a good idea. Because at that time, I didn't have a PhD program that I can go and maybe, you know, drive up and maybe do a class and come back home. The wife didn't want to be separated for four or five days at a time. And then Beeson was really an excellent choice. Now, the positive thing about this, all of it is positive, but primarily, Dr. Robert Smith Jr. was here. And, you know, he would be the one to guide me in my dissertation work. So, yeah. >>Doug Sweeney: Pretty good teacher of preaching. >>Calvert: I think so. >>Doug Sweeney: Okay, so then you got asked to do all kinds of different things for Beeson over the years. This is not the first time you've ever taught at Beeson. But recently, you started investing as a professor at Beeson a lot more fully than before. How'd we talk you into that? How was the Lord working in your heart and your mind as you were thinking about, is this something that's from you, Lord? You remember how tired I got when I was studying and pastoring at the same time? You know, being a professor, the students don't like to hear you say this, but when you're preparing classes, you're working just as hard, sometimes harder than you ever worked as a student. >>Calvert: Absolutely. >>Doug Sweeney: So how did you get persuaded to come back and be a professor at Beeson? >>Calvert: Well, you know, I learned a long time ago to seek God's perfect will. I don't want to find myself under the permissive will of God, but the perfect will. I feel that God was preparing me because I had an opportunity to do some, well, I taught online with Anderson University. Dr. Didway, Michael Didway, had a good time there. And then I went to Huntsville to teach for about eight years. And then Birmingham Easonian Baptist Bible College invited me to teach advanced homiletics. And so, when the call came in from Beeson, it was really a surprise. And as God is my witness, I had no idea that I would be asked to come fill in, or whatever the case may be. But when Dr. Fuller asked on your behalf, I was really knocked off my feet. And immediately I knew to respond, yes, because I felt that God was preparing me. Also, Dr. Robert Smith invited me to lecture in his class for 10 consecutive years. And when he would travel, along with others that he would invite, he would also invite me to come in and to hear student sermons. He would forward to me crystal centric outlines and manuscripts. And when he retired, he just said to me, and he had no idea that you would ask me as I was teaching at other schools, he just looked at me says, “I prepared you,” and he walked away. >>Doug Sweeney: Yes, wow. That's something. How have you thought about the relationship between your pastoring and your teaching over the years? I can imagine a couple of different things you might say. You might say, well, I've always had teaching gifts, the Lord's blessed me with opportunities. And then people pick up the phone, and they call me and they ask, will you please serve with us? And I kind of feel like I'm obligated to do it because the Lord's blessed me in these ways. Or you might say, oh, I just love teaching and, you know, it's a thrill every time. It's worth not getting enough sleep at night to do it. How do you think about it? How has it worked just practically experientially in your life as you've tried to juggle? I mean, you're a busy pastor. You could just pastor always, only pastor in your church. And it could easily be 60, 70 hours a week. >>Calvert: Yes. >>Doug Sweeney: So somehow, you've decided the Lord wants you to combine these things. How'd you figure that out? And what's that been like for you? >>Calvert: A true blessing for me. I think about accountability and, you know, it is what I call incarnational value that comes with doing both. What I teach in the classroom, I must go and practice at New Jerusalem. And I love doing both. Working between the church and the academy really, you know, has been a dream come true for me. You know, it's like we were holding a conversation with the person the other day, and they were talking about guys who do construction work and home remodeling work and how many times you go to some of their homes and the home is in disrepair. They can go beautify everybody else's home. For me to come teach, I must go and demonstrate in New Jerusalem what I'm teaching in the preaching lab. And to prepare students, it's just the most wonderful thing. It's just a fulfillment of God's word. I feel that it is, in a way, fulfilling the great commission in the academy as well as in the church because that's, you know, Beeson's mission, you know. >>Doug Sweeney: All right, my last question to you before we ask how our listeners can be praying for you is just to tell us a little bit about, you're deeply invested now both at New Jerusalem Baptist Church in Bessemer and at Beeson Divinity School. If you were to get asked to kind of stand back and describe for people, like our listeners right now, what's the Lord doing these days at New Jerusalem that I'm excited about? And then what's the Lord doing at Beeson that I'm excited about? How would you do it? >>Calvert: Well, I would say, you know, I still have to bring up COVID because we had to come back and build all over again. And not a building, but a ministry. And God is doing, I think, a very powerful work in New Jerusalem. I want to say that we are contending the faith because, you know, I don't think it's possible to have a powerful ministry without some conflict whatsoever. So, I want to say that, you know, I'm grateful for the people's resilience as it relates to their commitment to Jesus Christ. What we're doing now, we have a next-gen ministry that's growing, and I'm very excited about that. They have a hunger for God's Word. We are doing a different type of outreach now that I'm very, very pleased with, and that is we're partnering with local schools to make sure that we don't have hungry children. And so, we have what is called a snack pack ministry, where we take snack packs to the school at least twice a week, and then we're trying to set up a full meal over weekends so that children won't be hungry from Friday to Monday. Here at Beeson, I'm very excited that it appears that my students love preaching. >>Doug Sweeney: Yes, I love their preaching teaching. I'm told over and over again. >>Calvert: But, you know, what I'm excited about is to have them to feel as though, or to confirm that, you know what, you've been calling to the ministry, you should feel like a preacher, I should address you in that way. I should treat you that way in the classroom. And to watch them not only want to get up and preach, but to know where preaching is, it's the most wonderful thing. So that preaching would be in the pores of their skin, that they would preach beyond the classroom, it's just exciting to me. >>Doug Sweeney: All right. Sounds like you're at least a little bit encouraged by the kind of preaching you're getting in class. Does it encourage you? I mean- >>Calvert: Yeah. >>Doug Sweeney: As Dean, I get to hear your best students preach in chapels. And I tell you, those days, they're the most emotional days for me of the year. I'm just so grateful to God for the way he's forming these pastors. >>Calvert: Oh absolutely. >>Doug Sweeney: But I don't get to hear everybody practice every time in preaching class, and you do. Is it mostly encouraging? As you think about the future of the pastorate, are you mostly encouraged by what you're getting in class? >>Calvert: I am. And I must say, like, when you see someone interview a football player or a quarterback, he can't have success without his line, without running backs and others. I have to attribute any success in preaching and training students to preach to the work of the entire faculty, to you, the entire faculty. What they're doing, they're bringing what they've learned in all these other classes. >>Doug Sweeney: Sure, yeah. >>Calvert: And they're bringing it to the preaching lab. And as I say to them, it's one thing to bring all the ingredients to bake a cake and place them in the kitchen, but that doesn't bake the cake. It doesn't make the cake, neither does it bake the cake. Let's get in and let's learn the art of preaching. Let's show you how to put these ingredients together, and let's show you how to slice this cake up and serve it the right way. >>Doug Sweeney: It sure does taste good. All right, Dr. Calvert, we're about out of time. Our listeners do like to pray for our people. If they're going to pray for Dr. Reginald Calvert, how can we be praying for you in days ahead? >>Calvert: Yes, that I may serve with a spirit of excellence between the church and the academy. That's what I want. I want to finish well. I want to finish well. >>Doug Sweeney: Yeah. >>Calvert: Yes. >>Doug Sweeney: All right, friends, this has been Dr. Reginald Calvert. He is the pastor of the New Jerusalem Missionary Baptist Church in Bessemer, Alabama, just to the west of Birmingham. He's also a professor of preaching here at Beeson. He's a very busy man and a dear friend. We're delighted that he's with us. We thank you for joining us. We want to remind you we are praying for you as you pray for Dr. Calvert. We love you even as we love Dr. Calvert and we say goodbye to you for now. >>Mark Gignilliat: You’ve been listening to the Beeson podcast; coming to you from the campus of Samford University. Our theme music is by Advent Birmingham. Our announcer is Mark Gignilliat. Our engineer is Rob Willis. Our Producer is Neal Embry. And our show host is Doug Sweeney. For more episodes and to subscribe, visit www.BeesonDivinity.com/podcast. You can also find the Beeson Podcast on iTunes, YouTube, and Spotify.