I�m Grant Gardner and you�re listening to Statistically Speaking, a podcast from the Samford University Center for Sports Analytics in Birmingham, Alabama. I�m Zachary Taunton and each week we are going to explore how big data and advances analytics is impacting the business side of sports. So, here is this week�s episode... --- Zachary Taunton (ZT): Welcome back to Statistically Speaking, my name is Zachary Taunton. Today we are back here with a repeat performance from our guest Chase Tripi. How are you doing today Chase? Chase Tripi (CT): Pretty good, pretty good. Glad to be back here again. ZT: Alright Chase, today what we are going to talk about is trends in ticket sales. The reason we are going to be talking about this is that a lot of people don't know exactly where the money in sports is coming from. Is it sponsorships? Is it ticketing? Like where is the money in sports? So it seems well worth the time to talk about: what are the current trends in ticket sales and how is that affecting sports? So in your experience, what are those trends right now and how have they changed from the past? CT: So, I think in my biggest experience, and this is coming from a marketing standpoint, that�s where I�m going to focus this - ticketing has seen a large effect in sales from the secondary markets. I�m talking Ticketmaster, StubHub, the secondary market were tickets are bought from a team and then resold on another market to fans is where we've seen a lot of difficulties in marketing. ZT: Would you say that's developed in what, like the last 10 years? CT: I would say yeah, the last 10 years and the biggest issue this poses for a marketer, and a team, is that you know when we sell tickets to people were able to get demographic information from them. �Zip codes, genders, things like that and that helps us drive specific marketing tactics to sell tickets. The hardest part is when we sell these tickets to a fan and then they are resold on a secondary market the fan that comes through the door is not going to be the original person you sold it to. It�s a whole different person with a whole different demographic coming into the stadium. So we now have a challenge where we don't know a good amount of our fans and that's dangerous as a marketer that we might be pushing incorrect tactics. ZT: Right, and what do you think that teams can do �to combat that? When I buy tickets to go to almost any event I rarely buy it directly from whoever is hosting the event. I buy it from the StubHubs and Ticketmasters. So what can a team do to prevent this? CT: I think that the biggest thing is dynamic pricing models. Which it's easier said than done. It's coming up with prices that are attractive to people that would go to a secondary market and rather just come to the team. I think there's a large gelling point of ticket safety coming from a team rather than a secondary market. Whereas you know, sometimes people get fraud tickets or they get a ticket rescinded when the they buy it. I think there�s a danger sometimes that people feel when buying from a secondary market, but not as common as it was or as it used to be. I think as the marketer, it's our job to try to come up with some sort for pricing model that is attractive to people so we can get them from going to that secondary market. ZT: Do you foresee a way that teams could prevent this as being actually partnering with a StubHub or a Ticketmaster? And since this is such a common problem a way that people might be prevent it is to just accept the fact this is going to happen and do their best control it. So do you see situations in which teams might decide: okay this is going to happen so we're just going to let it happen and do our best to control it? CT: So, I already know a few teams have partnerships, but there have been a few leagues and such like the NBA. The NBA has NBA tickets.com. Where it's like that commercial, �The Jeffersons got tickets to the game. The Andersons got tickets to the game.� That gets memed a lot. They push very hard their proprietary ticketing software for their website, their app. Because they want to keep people coming to them first to buy tickets rather than going to StubHub. So, yes there are teams that are in partnerships with StubHub and Ticketmaster trying to get secondary data on the people who are buying in that market. At the same time you have leagues that are trying to push their proprietary software and taking platforms in order to keep that money primarily in-house. ZT: Okay Chase, let�s talk about just overall trends in ticket sales. Obviously ,there are lots of different revenue streams for teams from sponsorships to licensing to ticketing, so what percentage of that - and you don't have to give me specific percentage - but just in general would you say that ticketing is of a teams actual revenue? CT: Well, I think is it is difficult to say a specific number. Mainly because there's so many different leagues from amateur to pro to collegiate, but I believe I can say for collegiate and most amateur sports that largely ticket sales still accumulates to the larger portion or percentage of a team�s revenue. When we�re talking about more of a pro league you know there's TV licensing deals, distribution, streaming - �a lot of that goes into play when you have a digital audience. When it comes to teams that have a stadium, and not really a licensing deal, you're going to find out the tickets are still largely the main source of revenue. ZT: Yeah, that�s really interesting because so many people now consume their sports digitally as you were saying. An actual stadium in the NFL might be 65 to 75 thousand people, but even so the ticketing there tends to dominate their revenue streams. It�s not sponsorships, it�s not even licensing, it�s people that buy tickets and physically sit in those seats that still pays for the majority of what that team does. Even though there could be upwards of millions who are actually watching digitally, it's so differently weighted. So, have you seen any different trends in ticketing across different leagues? Are the ticketing trends in the NFL different from the NBA? Or are those trends looking more or less the same? CT: I think as far as I can say, I'm not specific to the NFL's ticket trends, I think more for the NBA tickets tend to waver a lot more than I think the NFL would. Just because that�s the nature of the league. There�s a lot more games in the NBA. When a team�s on a hot streak you are going to find a ticket spike. When a team's not looking too great, they're going to tank pretty hard. And the NFL I feel like has such a shorter season, not as many games, you�re gonna have a lot more butts in the seats just because you know you're not going to have a chance to see another football game for another year or another couple months or the way to league works there�s just not a lot of games. With the NBA there�s so many games all the time that if a team sucks, people are willing to just not go. Just because they can see another game at another time. So with the trends of the NBA they're still selling out a good amount of teams with larger markets, but they're doing a lot of profit sharing plans to try to get more butts in seats in small market teams. ZT: And one of the interesting things I have found about trends in ticketing is how teams are trying to get people back at the games. Particularly in the US, it's such an entertainment saturated market that now it isn't always about the game. I mean obviously this all really began with the Dallas Cowboys and Jerry World and selling so much more than just a game, but now in order to get people - to get those butts in seats, now those teams are building new stadiums. The Falcons built their new stadium. So much of what is being offered at a game is more than just a game, you know the full experience. CT: Yeah, I think we seen that recently with Atlanta United. They have created a massive experience with their games. From a team that has been around for a season or two they have created what feels like a team that has been around for 20, 30 years. You go to a game there and they have traditions. It�s like, how do you have a tradition? You�ve been there for two years. So, teams are trying to look to create an experience and I think we're going to see that more and more coming throughout leagues. We saw a couple years ago the Atlanta Hawks doing �Tinder Night.� Weird little sponsorships like that where they're trying to create an experience to get people to come out to games because it's got to be more than just a game now to get people in the seats. ZT: So, there you have it folks. There are the trends that are driving ticket sales across multiple leagues and it's a really interesting time viewing sports just because there's so much change that's taking place all at the same time. Thank you, Chase for coming on and educating us on trends in ticket sales. CT: I do my best, thank you. --- Thank you for listening to Statistically Speaking. This podcast was created and produced by Zach Taunton and Grant Gardner. To learn more about the Samford University Center for Sports Analytics, and download more episodes of the podcast, visit our webpage at samford.edu/sports-analytics and follow us on Twitter @SamfordSACenter.