History in the Recipe: Better Than Grandma's Biscuits

Published on November 5, 2018

https://www.samford.edu/departments/oral-history/projects/samwav/Biscuits.mp3

"If you can get someone to really connect, to describe an experience of food, I mean it is very strong. And I think that, ultimately, like, food is a container. Food is a vessel that holds emotion, history, feelings."

Chapters

Introduction: Scott Peacock’s Southern Roots

Scott Peacock describes his childhood and how it shaped his perceptions of Southern cooking, as well as describes his path to a culinary career.

Play Segment

Scott Peacock’s Return to Southern Cooking

Scott Peacock describes his revelations about Southern cooking that led him to a newfound appreciation for it.

Play Segment

Cooking Biscuits with Scott Peacock

Scott Peacock shows Keely Smith and Ann Potter how to make biscuits and describes the significance of each ingredient.

Play Segment

Transcript

HARWELL GOODWIN DAVIS: He stated that he had been appointed to suggest a
president for Howard College.

EUNICE ROGERS: And so there was a lot of industry in Bessemer when I grew up, a
lot of progressiveness. However, it was still a typical, small, Southern town.

OLIVER BARREAU: To be perfectly honest with you, um, I didn't know what Alabama
was until I set foot in Alabama.

ELIZABETH SLOAN RAGLAND: I was not greeted by hecklers. I was greeted by Martha
Ann Cox.

MICHELLE LITTLE: Welcome back to Sam.wav! We are your hosts, Michelle Little ---

CLAIRE DAVIS: And Claire Davis! And today we're introducing the next episode in
our food mini-series, "History in the Recipe". Last time, we traveled halfway
around the world to discuss the impact of agriculture in Nigeria. Now, we're
only going about an hour away to Marion, Alabama, as seniors Keely Smith and Ann
Potter interview renowned chef Scott Peacock about his thoughts on Southern food
and culture.

MICHELLE LITTLE: So without any further ado, we'll hand it over to Keely and Ann.

KEELY SMITH: Welcome to today's episode of Birmingham Eats, Better than
Grandma's Biscuits: Perceptions of Southern Food and Culture. I'm Keely Smith,

ANN POTTER: And I'm Ann Potter. On this segment, we will be discussing Southern
food and perceptions with Mr. Scott Peacock.

KEELY SMITH: Mr. Peacock is a published Southern chef who was named the James
Beard Foundation Best Chef in the Southeast in May 2007. He was a frequent TV
guest chef, a columnist for Better Homes and Gardens magazine, and a co-author
of The Gift of Southern Cooking.

ANN POTTER: However, his love of Southern cuisine has not always been at the
forefront of his career. A native of Hartford, Alabama, Peacock began his career
in the hope of shirking his Southern heritage. It was not until much later in
his career that he began to appreciate and explore the Southern cuisine he is
known for today.

KEELY SMITH: Much like Mr. Peacock's story, the American perception of Southern
food has vastly shifted from disdain to appreciation. Today, Southern food is
renowned for its personal touch and careful regard for ingredients.

ANN POTTER: As we talked and cooked with Mr. Peacock, he opened up about his own
experience and coming to appreciate Southern food in his life and career.

SCOTT PEACOCK: I was born in Hartford, Alabama, which is the town I grew up in.
Uh, in the wiregrass of Alabama in 1962, December 21, the winter solstice. And I
was born in the dining room of my house, which, actually, it was a house that
had been converted to a doctor's clinic. It's now a house again, but it was the
room that was the dining room, which, (laughs) is kinda hilarious and I like it
quite a bit. Um, my mother, her maiden name was Dorothy Haskew, uh, and she was
born in Hartofrd, also. And my father, his name is Franklin Peacock, Franklin D.
Peacock. The D stands for nothing, which country people would sometimes do. He
just turned eighty [can't understand] and he grew up outside of Slokum, Alabama,
which is another very small wiregrass town. And his parents were sharecroppers,
and he, I remember, even when I was in the first grade, which, granted, was
approaching fifty years ago, um, my father's parents were still quite poor. And
they did not have an indoor bathroom until I was in the first grade. Which was
not common.

KEELY SMITH: Mr. Peacock grew to dislike his hometown as his career took him
outside of Alabama.

SCOTT PEACOCK: And I got an internship with a Congressman from Alabama one
summer and I came back and I got an internship with the governor of Florida. I
was going to school in Tallahassee, which is the capital of Florida. And it was
when I was an intern in the governor's office that I went to a party at the
governor's mansion and I had never seen such splendor. And the food in the
battleship silver, you know. It was everything. It was very alluring, I can tell
you that. And I felt very adult, and I felt a very long way from Hartford,
Alabama. In a good way.

ANN POTTER: His attitude about Southern food followed suit, and that was
reflective in the types of food he wanted to be cooking at the governor's
mansion. However, as he grew in his repertoire as a chef, he began to understand
there was something to Southern cooking that he had been missing.

SCOTT PEACOCK: So the Harrises had very, um, very simple taste in terms of what they liked
on a daily basis. So it would be a lot of the same things that I learned to cook
there that were largely, um, you know, um, recipes from the governor's mother,
Nanny Harris, who was a very good cook. But it was very simple. I mean like
beans, and salmon croquettes, things that were very, very specifically done. And
of course I was young, and I felt very put upon as a young person, you know,
that I was not showing what I could do or why were they not letting me do what I
wanted to do, instead of having me cook these things. But, ha, I was a brat, you
know. I was an absolute brat about that. And resentful. I do not feel any
resentment at all about that now, because I can see how spoiled I was. And I was
there to please them and you know, help him do what he needed to be able to do
to be the governor of Georgia. But I enjoyed it. It was complicated because I
was young. I was not interested in Southern food at all. I mean, I was
interested in Italy and France like everybody who was really a food person at
that time was. I mean those were the popular cuisines. I mean, they were
recently popular, too. Southern food, we certainly were not thinking of as food
at that time. So I was very much on my way, I thought at the time, to Italy to
learn about Italian food, like every other young person who wanted to be a cook
in America. Because, at that time, and I think now with young people your age, I
think it would be difficult to imagine because Southern food is quite popular
and quite the trend, but at that time it was not. And at that time it was
qualified in that, um, people my age and older, would wax on about their grandmother's
cooking or their mother's cooking or you know a woman who had worked for their
family, their cooking, uh, and they would, you could tell it was the best food
they had ever had. And their, they had a deep emotional attachment to it no
matter how it tasted, it was very much about how they felt when they were eating
that food prepared by those people. But then they would always say, "Of course, she was
not no fancy cook, she was a good old country cook." As if that was somehow on a level
less than. I was trying to scrape, you know, Hartford, Alabama off the bottom of my
shoe, you know. I was not interested in, I didn't, I didn't think there was anything there
to explore or celebrate, you know. Which is... Which is just part of being young I think. But it was
also a larger cultural identity, I think, at the time of being Southern.

KEELY SMITH: It was not until he met renowned Southern chef Ms. Edna Lewis, who
convinced him that Southern cooking should be showcased and explored, that he
embraced his heritage.

SCOTT PEACOCK: In the shower, as these things happen, it, it was like a
lightning bolt for me. And I, it just all, it all clicked very suddenly for me.
And, um, that there my father and Grandma Peacock and these, you know, very--You
know I definitely, I'm sure at that time I was associating Southern food with
poverty, too, which I think was how a lot of people did. Which I think was part
of that--"She was not no fancy cook, just a good old Southern cook" came from.
Um, was an insecurity that, that some Southerners probably still grapple with.
And, and for me, that was everything to do with Grandma Peacock and an outdoor
bathroom and not being able to read or not having options in life. So somewhere
in there I was realizing there was a lot more. I did not realize there was a lot
more to my experience yet, but I really did realize there was a lot more to the
South. And if you, that you could approach Southern cooking with that
incredible, you know, standard of quality.

SCOTT PEACOCK: I mean after that, that moment when it hit me on that Saturday
morning. To me it was really clear, like, and that I, there would be no
compromise, um, or, or, or as little as possible. What I mean is that I would,
that I would have to find my way cooking Southern food, which was not a popular
career path at the time.

ANN POTTER: After this revelatory moment, Mr. Peacock started the Horseradish
Grill and the Watershed restaurant in Atlanta in 1994 and 1999 respectively.

KEELY SMITH: Toward the end of his career in Atlanta, his beloved friend Ms.
Lewis passed away. Though heartbroken, Mr. Peacock recognized that he had found
happiness in their friendship apart from his identity as a chef for the first
time. As he continued after her death, he began his journey toward oral history
in Marion, AL.

SCOTT PEACOCK: I also realized that underneath all of, um, those feelings of
stress and fear and anxiety that I was happy. And I realized that I don't think
I had ever, I could ever resaid that. I don't think I understood what that, what
happy really meant, and I realized that I was happy because, um, because it was
the first time in my life that I had known with certainty that there was nothing
more important that I should be doing or could be doing than being with her and
taking care of her. And it was what I wanted to do. And that there was nothing
more important, period. Certainly not a restaurant or anything ridiculous like
that. And that was extraordinary, you know? I mean that was, I had never felt
that or known what that feeling was like. So that was quite extraordinary. And
then after she died, I was lucky to have that, you know, as a, as a benchmark,
really, or as a touchstone, you know? And it has become extremely useful to me
in making decisions about things can sometimes seem like pure folly like moving
to Marion, Alabama, for example.

ANN POTTER: Mr. Peacock did move to Marion, Alabama, to pursue his roots in
country cooking. It was actually an oral history project that ignited a passion
inside Mr. Peacock to explore these roots even further.

SCOTT PEACOCK: Certainly since I left, I mean, I thought, you know, I thought an
Alabama childhood was something to overcome. Um, I was never going to live in
Alabama again, and I certainly was never going to live in a small town again
having survived that once. Um. But then I started meeting people, people I
couldn't, even people from my hometown, you know what I mean, seeing them in a
different way. And I realized that I really didn't know anything about Alabama
to speak of which is so funny. It was so much like that moment in the shower,
you know, about Southern food. And that was the path that got me to this, but it
took me so long to get, have that moment. And, um. And so I had been thinking
about, because I was spending so much time here, that it would be good to get an
apartment or something, you know, to have a footprint here.

KEELY SMITH: More than that, his entire philosophy on cooking transformed.

SCOTT PEACOCK: When I was younger, I thought that creativity was about adding,
you know, about adding something. And somewhere along the line, that - I just
realized it one day that, um, you know, the taking away or what you don't put in
that plate or in a sentence, I mean it applies to all aspects of life really.
It's what you do not do that makes the biggest difference. It's like in music,
it's the space between the notes that really make the music, otherwise you just
have constant noise. I think that my cooking became much simpler, when there was
a time that, when I was younger, it would have been about more, more, more, you
know. The excess of it. But also about, like, no one has done that before.

ANN POTTER: As we cooked with Mr. Peacock, it became obvious that his
ingredients were an important part of the personal touch he put into his food.
His passion for indigo, cattle, and wheat developed as a result of his interest
in where food comes from and his emphasis on carefully chosen ingredients. We
saw this first hand in his explanation of the purpose and philosophy behind each
ingredient he chose for the biscuits we cooked together.

SCOTT PEACOCK: These are all soft, early wheats that, you know, from the fifteen
hundreds and so, or in the sixteen hundreds came into Virginia and the Carolinas
and were the foundation of, you know, what became one of the most famous parts
of southern cooking: the biscuits and the cakes and the pies and such and the
booze. Um. And then indigo. I have been growing indigo, which was one of those,
just one of those things that got in the head and just didn't go away. And then
I eventually got someone or heard about someone who had discovered this
seventeen hundreds variety of indigo that had been grown before in colonial
America in the lowcountry. And I was able to get some of that, and so indigo
really has my attention right now. It is very much like cooking. It is so much
like cooking. So is for me, at least, the way I experience or the way I have
gotten comfortable with it has been growing, growing things. It's, it's about
tending and paying attention and noticing and not doing too much and trying to
protect and nurture something along the way to get the best out of it. And there
are also the Pineywood cows, too, which is, um, a breed of cattle which was the
original colonial cow that was brought into the southeast by the Spaniards in
the fifteen hundreds.

KEELY SMITH: Mr. Peacock's interest in colonial indigo, cattle, and flour types
are representative of the close connection between foodways and American
history. His respect for the history of the ingredients we often take for
granted demonstrates his authentic approach to Southern cooking. Through
recognizing and appreciating the history of the ingredients, Mr. Peacock serves
a plate full of history every time he works his magic in the kitchen.

SCOTT PEACOCK: This is going to be interesting because the buttermilk we are
using today, we are going to use, is Marburger's, which is a thicker, creamier
buttermilk than that. And so the, the thicker, the variables are endless, for
one thing. You are never going to get the same buttermilk. I'm using, I, I made
the decision, um, the choice with these biscuits to make them with butter
because I, for a number of reasons, but some are just practical. But one was
that I really wanted the flavor of the wheat to come through. I love lard. I
love lard biscuits a lot, but I really wanted the wheat to, I wanted to get
something for the wheat, to support the wheat, rather than meet the wheat, you
know? I felt lard, even though it can have a delicious flavor, but it's, um, it
became or had become more about that texture and flavor, which I like a lot. But
this wheat is so rare and special and important.

SCOTT PEACOCK: I am wanting something that's a little rough, even. And some of
it is going to be worked rather fine, but that whole, like, to the texture of
coarse meal or something, to me doesn't work. Not for the, not for the biscuits
I am hoping to make, at least. Which is going to be a little more, um, less
homogenous and it's, it's the, this. These long flattened out, larger pieces,
like that's what will create layers if we get any layers. I am hopeful, you
know. I do find I can, like, I can shut out the noise in my head and like
really--I do love cooking, um, because it, it, I find it very grounding. Mrs.
Lewis, when she made biscuits, she was, I think she was a little more consistent
or felt, um,... I am always still searching. You know, I am always trying to
find Baby Bear's bed. And to care. I mean just to care enough. Care is ninety
percent of it. Care and consistency.

SCOTT PEACOCK: This is that Irish butter, what's it? I can never remember the
name. Kerrygold. It is not organic butter, but it is, it is, comes from
grass-raised animals. So that's a plus. And it is pretty salty, which I kind of like.

ANN POTTER: Kerrygold's reputation of grassfed animals and Irish heritage
proceed it as a brand. Many Southerners claim Irish heritage, so this butter
fits well into Southern cooking.

KEELY SMITH: Mr. Peacock takes great care in learning about his ingredients and
techniques, which is what we think makes him such a successful, innovative chef.
Mr. Peacock embodies the personal touch that makes Southern cooking so beloved
today because he sees the stories behind the food. We have those like Mr.
Peacock to thank for the newly widespread appreciation of Southern cuisine.

SCOTT PEACOCK: If you can get someone to really connect, to describe an
experience of food, I mean it is very strong. And I think that, ultimately,
like, food is a container. Food is a vessel that holds emotion, history,
feelings. The times that, you know, that made your heart swell. And sometimes
the ones that hurt you really bad. I think you when you remember those things,
then you do also remember who you were at that time. So then like a recipe or a
memory of a dish is a lot like a snapshot that you look at it, although you are
not really looking at, I mean you could look at it, but you know, it captures a
moment. Or, um, and then you start thinking about it, and you realize how much
you have changed or not changed, um. For better or worse. That's what I would,
what I would say. But that sensory, the whole, food is very, very powerful.

ANN POTTER: We will leave you with those wise words from Mr. Peacock.

KEELY SMITH: Thank you for listening, and have a great day!

CLAIRE DAVIS: Theme and music composed and produced by Kerry Joiner. Today's
episode was made by Keely Smith and Ann Potter with the introduction and credits
by Michelle Little and Claire Davis. This is a Samford Traditions and Oral
History Recording Initiative production. For more history on Samford University
or our program, visit our page on the Samford website or follow us on our
Facebook and Instagram at Samford_STORI and on Twitter at SU_STORI.

Audio Information
Attribute	Value
Repository	Samford University Oral History Collection
Accession	SUHist/STORI/005